245 replies to this topic

[CoastalAngler1]

DOC - I've avoided posting directly to you - no one wins in this discussion, it is for everyone's benefit.  MYS rules are old and outdated in terms of the rest of the country.  Whoever the MYS directors really are, they can make it better for everyone.  No change seems foolish when good ideas are presented.  I totally respect what you do for MYS - but change is good for all.  Losing only a few racers can have a big effect.  Gaining a few more is the right thing to do.

 

Nobody is out to get anybody, or trash anything.  We all want to race!  

 

I got fast sooner than others expected...you guys ain't passing me easily with my blip at the beginning of the straight ever again.

 

Where are fresh ideas?

 

Running MYS w no changes - kinda like doing the same thing expecting a different result?

[DOCinCanton]

As I have stated above,

1) the rules for 4" NASCAR, GT1, and GTP should stay the same.

2) bring in the JK Indy car class.

3) eliminate Group F and Group 12. (sorry Jeff)

 

That is four flexi car classes.

 

Re-install the expert and novice driver classes in all car classes. Run them off separately if we have enough racers. Podium plaques and pics for both Novice and Expert. Promote as such.  This will give the beginner a place to start and not blown away.

 

Possibly for the novice car classes, only allow the retro hawk motor in NASCAR and GT1 and only the Hawk 7 in GTP.  BTW: The Hawk 7 is in the JK Indy car.

 

We can dump the front axle and o ring tires, but must have front tire decal instead.

[DOCinCanton]

Charlie: the fresh ideas are to reinstate the two driver classes and add the JK Indy car class.

 

You have gotten very fast in a very short period of time. Your example kind of goes against those who dont want to race in Myseries because they will get crushed. Well, you have proven that it might take only a few months to get competitive. I take my hat off to you. 

 

As I said above, I figured that it would take me a long time to be competitive; I was good with it. I practiced, practiced, and practiced some more. And did this in My Series and GRRR. Many others want to win out of the box. I don't think that this is reasonable. However, we still need to find a way to get more local racers involved in My Series. The Novice driver class might help us a lot.

[Half Fast]

I need to repeat that the track owners that I have talked to personally think that the outlaw ruleset will destroy flexi racing in Florida.

 

Why is that?

 

Cheers

[CoastalAngler1]

As I have stated above,

1) the rules for 4" NASCAR, GT1, and GTP should stay the same.

2) bring in the JK Indy car class.

3) eliminate Group F and Group 12. (sorry Jeff)

 

That is four flexi car classes.

 

Re-install the expert and novice driver classes in all car classes. Run them off separately if we have enough racers. Podium plaques and pics for both Novice and Expert. Promote as such.  This will give the beginner a place to start and not blown away.

 

Possibly for the novice car classes, only allow the retro hawk motor in NASCAR and GT1 and only the Hawk 7 in GTP.  BTW: The Hawk 7 is in the JK Indy car.

 

We can dump the front axle and o ring tires, but must have front tire decal instead.

 

This only makes for more confusion...and more rules.  And another set of tires if u don't run retro.  And another car purchase.  And so on...

 

No fronts?  DOC?     ​ 

 

Novice and expert are not a big thing...winning a B Main is still winning.  What is a C Main?  I have to travel out of the state of Florida to find out...

 

"If we have enough racers" should be the exception, not the norm.  Growing the program should be the number 1 goal of MYS.

 

I recently heard a wise experienced racer say, "I didn't work on my cars since the last race, but I bet out of 25 racers I will find someone to race against for 80-100 laps today."  Thanks JC Martin for that lesson!

[DOCinCanton]

Charlie wrote: "No fronts?  DOC?"  OK, I am guilty of compromising.

​​

[tonyp]

So it's a my series for motorcycles? You guys can't run at Greg's without fronts can you?

[Danny Zona]

So it's a my series for motorcycles? You guys can't run at Greg's without fronts can you?

The flexis do have front wheels but do not touch the track or look like front wheels.

Because of this, there is a .050 front chassi clearance rule at Greg's aka holly hell track.

[tonyp]

Got it. Thanks.

[Biscuit]

Lets say someone was to walk into a slotcar track and wants to buy a car. Assuming they intend to race, they most likely will buy a car they can race at that track. The key at this point (local level) is inexpensiveness and keeping the rules simple. 

That being said, can you realistically expect anyone new to the hobby or even the average local racer to invest the money in motors to start racing at the state level with myseries motor rules? I seen the gtp entries evaporate as motor expense rose. I remember in fldiv2 gtp was the biggest class. No am and ex just 1 class and a cheap motor. At the state level you are ready to compete no need for experience ratings, we dont even have enough racers showing up to myseries to do that anyways. 

No need for motor builders to flex muscles the retro hawk motors provide great racing at an even greater price, and the ability to run multiple classes with a motor that cheap is a great idea. Focus on setup bodies tires ect. not the most $ motor program. Ask Charlie, everyone has a chance, even the new racers at tracks they have never seen before. 

In Florida if you run every Myseries and every Grrr race that is 22 weekends out of the year. At what point are these racers expected to support their local programs and help them grow? They are probably broke from all the travel expenses alone. Too many races with not enough racers has helped kill things even a little more. In the last couple months i have spent a few hours on the phone with track owners of Florida past and present. From what i heard they seem to agree with what i see on here and how i feel personally. Some sort of change is needed. 

My simple but not simple solution- cheap rules that are friendly for the new racer(outlaw), less state racing and focus on supporting the local tracks and growing the local programs, then in turn the 5ish state races a year will be greatly anticipated and more heavily attended. Ralph has the master plan for a race id say will be the biggest scale race by avg class entries not just in the south but in the entire country, I just think Florida needs to fall in line with what is working and help build a simple and standard set of rules.

[Jay Guard]

Although I personally agree with most all of the points brought forward by Danny/Charlie/Mike B. I feel that we really need to have a constructive sit down meeting(s) with as many of the racers/track owners as possible and try to find a compromise that will work.  I know Ralph Thorne very well and I believe that he would be willing to compromise somewhat to bring all of the Southeast into a common rule set. Also, Mike B. has a great point about new racers and weekly racing and I think as Mike does that weekly racing has to be looked at somewhat differently.

 

BUT...The bigger question here is do we do what works individually for an individual raceway/small group or do we look at the bigger picture and realize that commercial slot car racing is on VERY precarious ground in the Southeast.  We ALL need to stand UNITED or we will eventually ALL fail to have a place to race.

[Danny Zona]

Im pretty sure Greg Walker is planning on a meeting soon. Maybe next month. Hopefully he can chime in and set a date.

[Michael Jr.]

This is 2015.  Soon the calendar changes and a new 2016 race season begins.  In life, everything always changes.[/quote]

How providential. I was just asking about the 2016 race series.
What races are there coming up? I'm looking to bring em to Inman!

[CoastalAngler1]

I know some Florida boys that will be wearing their Outlaw shirts when they visit Upstate Speedway soon...we can hardly wait!

[Michael Jr.]

We'll make it a photo op. Plan to race ya till you don't wanna race no more! Lol

[Wizard Of Iz]

DOC - I've avoided posting directly to you - no one wins in this discussion, it is for everyone's benefit.  MYS rules are old and outdated in terms of the rest of the country.  Whoever the MYS directors really are, they can make it better for everyone.  No change seems foolish when good ideas are presented.  I totally respect what you do for MYS - but change is good for all.  Losing only a few racers can have a big effect.  Gaining a few more is the right thing to do.

 

Nobody is out to get anybody, or trash anything.  We all want to race!  

 

I got fast sooner than others expected...you guys ain't passing me easily with my blip at the beginning of the straight ever again.

 

Where are fresh ideas?

 

Running MYS w no changes - kinda like doing the same thing expecting a different result?

 

 

I'm no longer a track owner so I have no more say in this than any other racer ...... but I'm not smart enough to not reply either.  Maybe it's the sinus meds.

 

Charlie ..... Please don't act like you don't know who the Series "directors" are.  They're listed in the Guidelines.  And I think Bill, Marcus and I attended more races than we missed.

 

Quick history lesson ..... My Series was started by a group of track owners (primarily Greg Walker and Buddy Houser) back in 2007 after two instances of Florida Division 2 officials mishandling the money.  (And I'm being kind.)  This was the ninth year and every penny has been accounted for thanks to Greg's work as treasurer.  

 

The track owners set the original classes back in 2007 and set the Series up so that future classes and rule changes would be determined by allowing the Competition Committee (one racer from each track) to make recommendations to the track owners.  The owners and committee members get together about this time of year (though last year got away from us), talk about the proposals, take a vote by the owners and go racing.  There have been a lot of changes since 2007 so I imagine that owners will be open to an honest conversation.  

 

Track owners and racers in Florida seem to understand that they absolutely, positively need each other.  It was setup this way to avoid having one clique get a bunch of guys to show up and vote a certain way.  It hasn't always been perfect, but it's worked pretty well for nine years.  So, tell your track owner and/or competition committee member what you'd like to see changed.  I think there have been some tweaks to the rules every year so I don't think anyone has ever drawn a line in the sand against changes.

[Michael Jr.]

I'm reading along with interest. While the tension seems bad, its the result of a growing desire for some uniformity. Legacy series have helped keep Slot Car racing alive regionally. But with greater mobility and tracks spread out, racers and owners alike are hoping for the sort of uniformity that allows for massing racers in different Race events. So keep the dialog, work through the tension, avoid personal attacks, recognize the years many have invested in good racing programs and lets evolve together.

[Mr. M]

This discussion reminds me of when I subbed for Bill Pinch at one of the USRA rule meetings in the early 1980's. The discussion was if the front wheels should touch and roll. The building consensus was to not require this. As you would expect, it was quite a discussion. Paul Pfeiffer was strongly opposed and offered that this would change slot racing forever. At the time, I did not see his wisdom, but I believe he was right. In the end, the change was made to not require this. Although subtle, this in my opinion, over time did have a negative impact. The point is, rule changes can have long lasting impacts, maybe negatively. Tread carefully here. Use the wisdom of the track owners wisely, their very existence depends on retaining their very thin base business.

Chris

[tonyp]

If you want to grow the racing, you need rules where new people can come into the raceway, buy a flexi out of the show case and be able to race it with out spending hours working on it. You need a class or classes where you leave your car in your truck and can show up and race. I honestly don't race flexi because they are more work then retro. Also a state like Florida is so big you have to concentrate on local racing and limit the number of "big races". The more big races the less money and time is left for local programs. BIsquit nailed this on the head. No local programs, no new racers.

[Wizard Of Iz]

If you want to grow the racing, you need rules where new people can come into the raceway, buy a flexi out of the show case and be able to race it with out spending hours working on it. You need a class or classes where you leave your car in your truck and can show up and race. I honestly don't race flexi because they are more work then retro. Also a state like Florida is so big you have to concentrate on local racing and limit the number of "big races". The more big races the less money and time is left for local programs. BIsquit nailed this on the head. No local programs, no new racers.

 

You, sir, are correct.  I agree that the closer the class is to what comes out of the display case, the easier it is to race.  The closest thing to this that I know of is the GT1/LMP class at P1. 

 

But I'm not sure that most guys that travel to race toy cars are also willing to race a RTR.  We "borrowed" an idea from Phil's Hobby Shop and always had a Ready-To-Race car in the case that was built to the specs for each class we ran.  We sold them for the price of the parts plus about $10 for assembling the parts.  And, we saw more than one of those cars come out of the case and win.  This made it easy for guys to quickly be competitive.  We even maintained cars for more than one racer so they just had to show up and race.

 

Local racing programs will only feed a Series if the classes are the same in each.  We could not have survived hosting just one big race each year.  Hosting three My Series races (two races plus one enduro) plus two GRRR races each year helped keep the doors open in a BIG way.  We had a fairly strong local racing program, but the idea that the Series was coming to town gave guys a reason to buy new parts or at least freshen up their existing cars.

[Half Fast]

 

 

But I'm not sure that most guys that travel to race toy cars are also willing to race a RTR.  We "borrowed" an idea from Phil's Hobby Shop and always had a Ready-To-Race car in the case that was built to the specs for each class we ran.  We sold them for the price of the parts plus about $10 for assembling the parts.  

 

And, we saw more than one of those cars come out of the case and win.  This made it easy for guys to quickly be competitive.  We even maintained cars for more than one racer so they just had to show up and race.

 

 

 

Two very good ideas both for the racers and the shop owner!

 

Cheers

[Bill Pinch]

FACINATING! 

 

The comments are numerous and interesting and  contributed by a limited number of ACTIVE racers (God bless you guys!).  As a Florida track owner, I am certainly more than passively interested.  

 

As a MY SERIES director for the past 7 years, I assure you I am very interested in the stability of our traveling series (MY SERIES and GRRR) as well as my local programs. 

 

MY SERIES 2015 has been a very encouraging year.  Car counts were up virtually everywhere and the end-of-year Enduro Season looks like it will be better attended than 2014. 

 

MY SERIES, thanks to Greg Walker, was established as a legal entity and cannot be easily changed.  As mentioned by Rollin,  rules/guidelines changes are voted on by the Raceway Owners with input from racers, though the racers don't have a vote.  My experience (33 years in the business) tells me this is the best way to do this as racer-run series are less stable and generally directionless other than to push things in the direction of just going faster (anyone remember CART?).

 

The discussion here is not how are we going to change FLORIDA MY SERIES. FLORIDA MY SERIES will continue in 2016 (with some changes from 2015 no doubt).  The discussion is:  will a third traveling series be added as a choice for Florida's slot car community?  As Danny Z mentioned, he prefers another series.  That's OK!  He knows I would shake his hand, pat him on the back, wish him well and give him a big THANK YOU for all the support he has provided to dozens of raceways and help he has provided to any racer who asked during the 20-plus years I've known him.

 

OSS(?) is available already in Georgia and the Carolinas - that's good!  Florida racers are certainly free to travel and participate and I'll do all I can to provided parts & pieces to enhance their racing programs.  If the effort is made to expand OSS to Florida, I won't discourage that.  The racers (the market) will decide whether or not ALL THREE (OSS, GRRR, MY SERIES) series can be supported. After the year FLORIDA MY SERIES had/is having, it would be a shame to see the increased racer-base be diluted, but that's all part of this business! 

 

Where ever and whatever you race, best of luck and HAVE FUN!  A big THANK YOU to all the racers who have supported The Raceway for all these years!  I look forward to seeing some of you at our Anniversary Party on 10/17/15 and even more of you as we venture into 2016. 

  

- BILL -

[Danny Zona]

I've had a change of heart. It happens. Lol. I will run My Series next year. I love racing too much. I obviously don't agree with certain rules but will take the high road. I felt I need to support FL.


I'll concentrate on running the motor building classes. Once the meeting is over and I know 100% sure what motors will be used its rebuild time. I'll send out arms to be balanced and reconditioned. Zap and match a couple magnets. Straighten cans. Install ball bearing in motors that allow it. Tweak the oilites in motors that require them. Straighten brush hoods. Set air gaps. Tweak springs. Tweak and cut brushes. I get to test my motor building skills next year.

[DOCinCanton]

Danny, very impressive; that effort and other things is why you are such a great slot car racer.

 

I wanted to point out that for those who have supported My Series over the last 2 or 3 years, if we went with the Outlaw rules, 67% of our motors are trash. Simply does not make common sense to me.

 

Another point: just because rules are more simply will NOT bring in new racers, because those racers that I talked to are intimadated by the top racers in My Series. This is where the novice driver class will help bringing in new racers, along with RTR car classes.

[Biscuit]

I would like to start by saying i have been an active 1/24 Florida slot car racer on the state level for the past 15 years or so. Im also one of the few Florida racers who have ventured outside our state boundaries to see how racing in other places compares to the way we do it here. An out of state racer on this thread summed up what every out of state racer i have talked to has said about our rules. Not saying this as a way to get out of state racers to come here and race, but maybe as a way to compare Florida as a state to what others are doing and what may be working. 

 

Another series hurting Florida? Its so over saturated already why stop now? 22 races supported by a very small group between the 2 makes a whole ton of sense to me. Fuel companies love it though. Local racing programs not so much.

 

Like Rollin said, you have to base a series off of what the tracks are running. It is my understanding as of right now this isnt really happening. This question is for Bill and Doc. If a person was to walk into your track Bill and wants to race nascar, would they be more likely to buy a car with a $13 motor or a $50 motor that wont be competitive with what myself or danny has??? Even crazier, why does it make sense to push a $60 motor for gtp that you know will never gain traction at the local level?? Killed the class if you ask me, nobody can afford a $60 motor only to realize it isnt fast and they need another $60 motor. Guess what they still arent fast enough, now what? Make it affordable, that is the key to getting entries and retaining them. People wanna save a couple $ on tires to not run the best but want to break the bank on motors? Not. Since i started racing gtp has always been an affordable class, until now. Go figure entries are at an all time LOW. If motors become obsolete so be it. Unfortunately it happens in racing. When you realize you made a wrong turn do you keep going aimlessly or do you turn around and cut your losses?

 

Wake up and ask the racers what they want. Wasnt that what MYSERIES was supposed to be about?? Just sayin...