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#101 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 05:47 PM

I would hope that GRRR would stay a stand alone IRRA affiliated retro series if at all possible.


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#102 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 05:57 PM

Mike, I agree with you.  I hope that GRRR stays as a stand alone series.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
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#103 Michael Jr.

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 06:07 PM

Is there a page for GRRR? I still don't know exactly what I'm looking at with that series. And it's landlocked behind Florida state lines?

Michael Cannon Jr


#104 tonyp

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 06:10 PM

It is the Florida retro series, run by me and grant Gorner. Florida based only. IRRA retro rules. We run at all the tracks in Florida.

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#105 Michael Jr.

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 06:29 PM

It is the Florida retro series, run by me and grant Gorner. Florida based only. IRRA retro rules. We run at all the tracks in Florida.


Got it.

Michael Cannon Jr


#106 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 07:48 PM

GRRR = Gator Region Retro Racing (I think).

 

The GRRR folder is located under IRRA racing here on Slotblog.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
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#107 Marcus P1 Raceway

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 08:03 PM

JUST IDEAS:

 

NOVICE COMPETE FOR ROOKIE OF THE YEAR!

 

CLASS#1 - JK RTR INDY CAR

THE SAME RULES

 

CLASS#2 - 4" NASCAR

ANY STEEL STAMPED FLEXY CHASSIS

MOTOR: JK RETRO ONLY

INTERIOR: PLASTIC 3D OR PAPER

FRONT WHEELS OR STICKERS

BODY: NO CHANGE

CLEARANCE OF 0.625

 

CLASS#3 - GTP

ANY STEEL STAMPED FLEXY CHASSIS

MOTORS: JK HAWK 6 OR HAWK 7

FRONT WHEELS OR STICKERS

INTERIOR: ANY

BODY: ANY GTP

 

ONLY THREE CLASSES, MORE COMPETITIVE E LESS EXPENSES!


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#108 Biscuit

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 08:06 PM

I think combining retro and flexi into a single series can only benefit both sides. Like i said 22 grrr and myseries races combined last yr. Tracks should be relying on local racing to keep doors open not an over saturated schedule that kills weekly racing because nobody stays home to support it. Shortly there after it kills state racing because nobody can afford it. Just my opinion. Can only build retro racing up. Charlie and Casey didn't have Canams at the first Outlaw race but they do now. Just an example... just an opinion... Long state season schedules are good for nobody. 11 and 11 last yr...


Mike Bresett proud Kelly racer

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#109 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 09:10 PM

Marcus, I urge you to get with Bill and Greg and setup a meeting. Include Ed if he is interested in My Series. What was done in the past was a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday evening meeting. It fit into peoples work schedule better. But this meeting could be any mutual agreed time.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
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#110 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 09:14 PM

Yeah, but for those of us that retro race only now, you are talking about cutting down on our events that we can race at, and not one raceway in the state has a weekly retro program going like some other areas do.  So instead of getting to race my retro cars that I build maybe once a month, we are talking about maybe five or six times a year and then it will be mixed with flexi racing.  And for those of us who don't travel out of state to race, it's almost not worth even keeping a retro program...other than driving to Holly Hill every other weekend I'm off just to play with stuff I built and no organized retro races to go to.

 

I'm in the process of building a second Can Am Plus, and have the stuff to start building a couple of retro stockers, but if GRRR is going to be merged with a flexi racing organization and have less races, where does that leave me and racers like me.  I didn't make the decision to drop flexi and go strictly retro overnight, have been working on this for well over a year, now I have to cut back retro?  I mean the fields may be small, but it's fun racing, and it's not like I haven't built cars for people or don't have cars to loan out.

 

If the prevailing flexi series is OSS and it wins out, hey that's fine, because they race one IRRA rules Can Am class, but what about the other retro classes?  I would like to see GRRR stand on it's own to keep its program going and expand to three classes per race day.


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#111 Jay Guard

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 09:52 PM

Doc:

That's a great proposal.  I haven't really taken lot of time to throughly think it all through but I'm liking what I see.  We might be able to get Ralph to bend a little on the OSS GTPs (maybe Hawk 7's only?) and we'd really have something there.  I do think that GRRR should stand alone but even though the Flexi and Retro races would be separate events the rules would all be the same.

 

The whole Southeast under a single (well actually two) great set of rules, WOW!!!


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#112 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 10:12 PM

Jay, thank you for the positive comments. I will see you in one week at P1.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#113 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 11:32 PM

H6, H7, RH...that's 3 motor programs.  And another car (indy).  really? holding onto .062?  same as it ever was, same as it ever was.

 

The new mozetti chassis should be a refreshing twist to jk everything.  If it is fast - that is worth an extra car to me, with a retro hawk motor in it.

 

In outlaw, you could add another class by changing the can-am body to coupe body?  Or slap a GT-1/LMP body on a flexi for another?  Everyone would have to build (brass) or kinda build (flexi) and actually drive a car instead of spending lots of money chasing horsepower. The retro guys are wise guys.


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#114 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 01:50 AM

H6, H7, RH...that's 3 motor programs.  And another car (indy).  really? holding onto .062?  same as it ever was, same as it ever was.

 

The new mozetti chassis should be a refreshing twist to jk everything.  If it is fast - that is worth an extra car to me, with a retro hawk motor in it.

 

In outlaw, you could add another class by changing the can-am body to coupe body?  Or slap a GT-1/LMP body on a flexi for another?  Everyone would have to build (brass) or kinda build (flexi) and actually drive a car instead of spending lots of money chasing horsepower. The retro guys are wise guys.

But what about F1 in retro?  What about Can Am Plus?  What about 4 1/2" stock car?  I for one like racing F1 and OSS has not run it.  Does that mean that if GRRR and OSS decide to combine that F1 will go into hiatus?

 

You guys are talking about changing flexi racing, that's all well and good as it has needed changing for awhile.  But now it looks like it's also going to affect retro as we know it in Florida, and we'll have to take a wait and see attitude to see how retro will emerge from all this.  Out of the frying pan and into the fire as far as trying to find a stable racing group to race with as more than half the cars in my box don't have a class to run in under OSS retro rules (single class at this point).

 

And if you look, most IRRA racing groups have a monthly racing event.  Retro guys in Cali have monthly events.  I would hate to see GRRR scale back racing anymore than what it already is.


"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#115 tonyp

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 05:08 AM

If we did decide to run adjacent with the flexi series Which ever one we we chose we would still have a Grrr event like we do now on the months they don't race.
So we would run retro every month. There is nothing that says if we run with the series we would only run can am. No reason 2 classes could not be run. In grrr we are doing nothing until the flexi dust settles. All the discussion here should be to make a cheaper flexi series to get more people racing.

If there's an outlaw race and a grrr race the same month would retro guys go to both? It might be too much racing. I don't think I could do both myself.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#116 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 05:48 AM

Thank you, Tony.  I just didn't want to see the number of retro races diminish. Coinciding with a flexi series some months would work if they ran two retro classes.  As far as making two retro races a month, it might be do-able for me, providing I was off both days, which I'm not usually lucky at that happening.

 

I'll take what I can get.  Would love to keep the retro racing once a month, at least then I have a chance to change my days off or put in for a vacation day. I'm trying to arrange my schedule now so I can make all the GRRR dates for the rest of the year if I can.


"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#117 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 07:27 AM

So, so glad to see a spirit of compromise in the air.  

 

The other day when I read of Sano Dave's passing it really made me think about a lot of things.  I never met Dave.  I only knew of him through what I read on message boards.  But I gather that he really enjoyed racing slot cars -- like a lot of us.  And he did it as long as he could.  Godspeed, Sano Dave!

 

We all only get so many laps, so to get crazy and argue about how to play with our toy cars is kind of pointless.  It shouldn't be too hard to figure this out if everyone will flex just a little.

 

My .02 to the various powers-that-be

 

NASCAR -- the classes are already very close.  Take the FLA16D out (which is certainly yesterday's technology)  of the Series and I think the only difference is front wheels and opening up the body list.  To me, it ain't worth arguing about and will take me about 2 seconds to unsolder a front wheel retainer.  Y'all know I like pretty cars, so I'd love to see an interior in a NASCAR.  And a lot of the paper ones (like Durl's) look better than some plastic ones, but it'd be cool to have something.

 

GTP -- I think a GTP should be a little faster than a NASCAR.  I hope Jay Guard is right and Ralph would accept Jay's tweak to Doc's and Marcus' suggestion and use just the Hawk 7.  Then you'll have a slightly faster car and still use a motor that's just $13.  It would be great way to repair a class that we screwed up the motor rules on years ago.  I suggest that the Series GIVE everybody that ran at least one GTP race last year a Hawk 7 to make the transition easier. 

 

I hope the various powers-that-be would go along.  This would get the two Flexi classes on the same page for the entire Southeast!!

 

 

 

 


Rollin Isbell
 


#118 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 07:50 AM

If we did decide to run adjacent with the flexi series Which ever one we we chose we would still have a Grrr event like we do now on the months they don't race.
So we would run retro every month. There is nothing that says if we run with the series we would only run can am. No reason 2 classes could not be run. In grrr we are doing nothing until the flexi dust settles. All the discussion here should be to make a cheaper flexi series to get more people racing.

If there's an outlaw race and a grrr race the same month would retro guys go to both? It might be too much racing. I don't think I could do both myself.

 

 

Thank you, Tony.  I just didn't want to see the number of retro races diminish. Coinciding with a flexi series some months would work if they ran two retro classes.  As far as making two retro races a month, it might be do-able for me, providing I was off both days, which I'm not usually lucky at that happening.

 

I'll take what I can get.  Would love to keep the retro racing once a month, at least then I have a chance to change my days off or put in for a vacation day. I'm trying to arrange my schedule now so I can make all the GRRR dates for the rest of the year if I can.

 

 

Just throwing out a schedule idea .....

 

Take four months - once at each Florida raceway - and designate them as OSS events.  NASCAR, GTP, and Can Am.  Those months could combine the two existing series and should be huge events with guys able to come from all over the Southeast.

 

Other months can still have independent Flexi races and GRRR races.  The Flexi Series could run NASCAR, GTP, and another class or two.  Either Indy cars or GT1/LMP or Group F.  Whatever the owners decide.  And GRRR could run their existing programs.  Just like now, guys could go to one or both.

 

 

 

Nobody has to go to every event.  But more events gives me flexibility.  If there are only five events and I have to work on two of those dates, then I only get to race three times.  But if there are eight events scheduled, then I still have six other opportunities to race.


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#119 tonyp

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 07:53 AM

Don't worry no matter what happens the number of retro races will not diminish.
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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#120 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 08:42 AM

Can you say, forecasting?  Any one ever do the math with scenarios of how many racers vs. how many races vs. how many classes vs. how many raceways vs. how many months/weeks?  Let's see...F1, can-am, coupe, can-am plus, can opener-pro...nascar, GT-1 monopop, GTP, GPF, GP12 (oops, jk indy monopop- monopoly lolipop).  As many classes as racers should tell you something.  Combining is gonna be tough.  Retro guys are wiser guys, they already fixed many of the issues arising in this discussion.  I do like kiwi-strawberry flavored drinks, though.  What if that is all you're allowed to drink for the whole day of racing? I know somebody that won't show without their iced tea...LOL.  Flexi dust?  We need Pixie dust.

 

That big yellow swoopy west coast hillclimb aint got me scared, but a cornerclimb I hear is a rookie nightmare.  :ph34r:


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#121 Biscuit

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 09:34 AM

Rollin that is very close to what i was thinking with the schedule. Almost everyone has a can-am at this point and it would be great to pair it with flexi racing in some capacity. The racers that don't have them can see what the cam-am racing is all about. Then every other month retro guys do their thing and flexi guys do theirs. The guys that do both either chose one or other. Guess they could do both then we talking $$ and no time for local racing again but i don't see too many doing both. Another idea if it stays 2 series on same month is 2 day format with flexi saturday and retro sunday. Kind of cancels fuel out with hotel but gives an extra weekend to support local racing, which is the key to this whole thing. 

 

All those ideas with the rules are so much better than where they currently sit so i can't argue with improvement. Personally id like to see interiors also. Bumper rules on bodies is another grey area and a headache for new racers when they have a body rub. Hell i can barely mount and get them right half the time. The idea with the lower rear height was to make it cleaner racing and give tires you already have that 1 extra last life. I have no preference here even though i do love cleaner racing. Front wheels? well stickers look better and are cheaper. I have lots of front wheels and no stickers currently but that is my honest opinion. 

 

Those are the current differences based on the similar motor rules. Nothing serious, the bumper rule being the biggest one.. I can't say the idea with slightly faster gtp motors isn't a little appealing. Little faster and something you can buy built or build but still for very very cheap. Still adds cost but many already have them. New racers still have to chose gtp or nascar but at least its much cheaper. I know the mini proslot motor is another similar motor to this?

 

Whether we make the rules exact to their rules or not, Ralph has expressed that if its called Outlaw the rules need to line up with what he has there. Name wise Outlaw sounds waaay better than MY SERIES but if anyone has invested in any tattoos or just likes the name MY SERIES better then i understand. I'm sure next year will bring tweaks and new ideas for Outlaw as well i just don't know what.  


Mike Bresett proud Kelly racer

Afx home set apt #3714 back to back triple crown champion (oval, road course, drag strip) 1993-94

Mr Bills super slots stock t-jet track record holder

2000 Fcr weekly race oval winner and 2001 Flexi nascar oval race winner

2003 Winged womp nerf fest champion (the one that caught the sponsors eye)

2007 scratchbuilt 1/32 s16c oval champion

Participation plaque champion 2011

2015 Tuesday night race place practice champion (black lane)


#122 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 09:50 AM

When will Florida have a big race like other regions?  

 

We should pick a date to invite Outlaws (or in-laws) to Florida, and figure what it takes to get them down here.  No king track but we got fast competitors.

 

TonyP's agent could arrange a table and set times for autograph signings and selfies?   :prankster2:  

 

A free motor is not exciting...give something to new racers who join in.  Develop incentives for new racers.  Raise entry fees, eliminate race bucks.  Make a super cool lane card (treasury) and give to each racer.  Sprinkle a heavy dose of pixie dust and settle this soon.  I will volunteer time to set up sponsors and help promote Florida slot racing.  Slot car manufacturers are not the only companies wanting to be seen.  Besides, I doubt their marketing budgets have much in them.

 

We're gonna need banners for participating tracks, posters, and a website...this is 2015.  Soon it's 2016.


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#123 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 11:02 AM

Rollin that is very close to what i was thinking with the schedule. Almost everyone has a can-am at this point and it would be great to pair it with flexi racing in some capacity. The racers that don't have them can see what the cam-am racing is all about. Then every other month retro guys do their thing and flexi guys do theirs. The guys that do both either chose one or other. Guess they could do both then we talking $$ and no time for local racing again but i don't see too many doing both. Another idea if it stays 2 series on same month is 2 day format with flexi saturday and retro sunday. Kind of cancels fuel out with hotel but gives an extra weekend to support local racing, which is the key to this whole thing. 

 

All those ideas with the rules are so much better than where they currently sit so i can't argue with improvement. Personally id like to see interiors also. Bumper rules on bodies is another grey area and a headache for new racers when they have a body rub. Hell i can barely mount and get them right half the time. The idea with the lower rear height was to make it cleaner racing and give tires you already have that 1 extra last life. I have no preference here even though i do love cleaner racing. Front wheels? well stickers look better and are cheaper. I have lots of front wheels and no stickers currently but that is my honest opinion. 

 

Those are the current differences based on the similar motor rules. Nothing serious, the bumper rule being the biggest one.. I can't say the idea with slightly faster gtp motors isn't a little appealing. Little faster and something you can buy built or build but still for very very cheap. Still adds cost but many already have them. New racers still have to chose gtp or nascar but at least its much cheaper. I know the mini proslot motor is another similar motor to this?

 

Whether we make the rules exact to their rules or not, Ralph has expressed that if its called Outlaw the rules need to line up with what he has there. Name wise Outlaw sounds waaay better than MY SERIES but if anyone has invested in any tattoos or just likes the name MY SERIES better then i understand. I'm sure next year will bring tweaks and new ideas for Outlaw as well i just don't know what.  

 

Y'all fight it out over bumpers and chassis clearance.  I'm not sure I'd race or not race based on those two items.

 

I don't know where the fine line is between a gear getting into the racing surface and being okay.  The Retro guys run .050 and things seem to be okay.  Could be a problem with faster cars where the braid is close to the racing surface.  Not as much of an issue on tracks with recessed braid.  I'd just hate to see a track get messed up.  I remember a race at Bill's when he was in Cocoa and someone's gear had gone across the braid in the donut like a buzz saw.  Big delay while a long section of braid had to be replaced.

 

I was just supporting Jay Guard's tweak to Doc's and Marcus' proposal that would take built motors out of the equation entirely since that seems important to some people.    And, I agree with you that a slightly faster GTP is appealing.  Makes sense to me.   No difference in cost to the racer between a Hawk Retro and a Hawk 7. And Hawk 7's come in a lot RTR's.       Funny how times change.  I remember not too long ago when a LOT of racers railed against not being able to build their own motors.  They'd never travel to a race where they couldn't run motors they built themselves.  If the Pro Slot you mentioned is the little piece of junk that we tried at an Enduro race a couple of years ago .... no thanks.  DZ was there.  What a turd of a motor --- unless it's been improved dramatically.

 

And we're talking about next year.  So it would be a little disappointing to learn that Ralph isn't open to a no-additional-cost motor change that I think a lot of people would agree with youand me would make the GTP class even better.  Especially when there's a chance to bring so many people together.

 

As for the name .... blame Greg.   :D   I ain't gonna lie .... it's felt strange typing that in race results for nine years. 


Rollin Isbell
 


#124 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 02:58 PM

How would adding the Hawk 7 to OSS series be a no addiontal cost change? That means now you have to have 2 motor programs, maybe I'm missing something? With the same motor GTP is faster then Nascar strictly because of the body.

Why not run Nascar, GTP, Can Am and F1 with a local track option of either the JK Indy or Group F once the main program is over. Run bi monthly starting in January. OSS will run big monthly here on the months you aren't running. We can meet in November at the Viper Pit for a Nats race. No racing in December.

Retro Hawks only. One motor for all the scale and retro classes. Cheap, easy and fun.
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#125 tonyp

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 03:00 PM

Rh for all classes. Makes the most sense.
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#126 Jeff Cox

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 03:06 PM

I see on the weekly email that I get from Bill Pinch that next week at P-1 Raceway there will be a My Series general meeting, is this a rules meeting to get this ironed out and if so why hasn't it been mentioned anywhere in this thread?

 

On a side note as I have been serving as tech director for at least the last 6 or 7 years I have not been aware of any kind of rules or competition comitte meetings for at least 2 years, although there have been rule changes and new classes added since then.

 

Jeff Cox


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#127 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 03:15 PM

I was talking to someone recently, I forget who. However, during the next race at Winter Garden, it was suggested to have a My Series directors (with drivers present) meeting after the JK Indy car race but before the endurance race.  Bill should be coming; he has the hand out motors. Someone needs to tell Greg about it.


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#128 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 03:27 PM

Ralph, look at my proposal in post #90. Your scheme of running two car class by only changing thr body is between #2 and #3......

 

As others have said above, I would prefer to have an interior in the Nascar cars.  We can easily remove the requirement for the front axle & wheels and put a wheel sticker on it for all flexi car classes.

 

Also, the ground clearance is a matter for the track owners to decide. In the history of slot cars, when racers control the rules, the ground clearance has always been reduced in the vain of going 0.02 seconds faster.   


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#129 Jeff Cox

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 03:32 PM

I was talking to someone recently, I forget who. However, during the next race at Winter Garden, it was suggested to have a My Series directors (with drivers present) meeting after the JK Indy car race but before the endurance race.  Bill should be coming; he has the hand out motors. Someone needs to tell Greg about it.

Once again here lies the problem, complete lack of comunication between the directors and the racers.

 

Jeff Cox



#130 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 04:21 PM

Doc, you can't just change a body and go race in your class #2 and #3 because you want to run 3 different motors between the the two classes. OSS is only interested in running one motor.

If you want to run an interior you can. It's not required that you don't have one, just a racers option.

The .050 clearance we use is more than the current USRA minimum and the same as GRRR. What's the issuse? Is GRRR not allowed to race at tracks because their cars are too low?
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#131 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 04:43 PM

Any racer by simply changing the body can race in car class #2 then #3. Only the JK Retro Hawk motor is allowed. I dont understand your problem with seeing this. Ralph, you did not read my proposal. Go back and read post #90. If you do, you will see that I am correct.

 

And if the racer wants to continue racing his only flexi car, he/she could simply change the body again and compete in a third race.  I am thinking that this is what separates my proposal from the OSS. A racer can actually run 3 races with the same flexi car. Very inexpensive racing.

 

The interior topic: either its required by the rules or not. A racer will not use an interior unless its required. Again, this is  racer thing about going 0.02 seconds (or more) faster a lap.

 

The clearance is a matter for the track owners to decide collectively, as I said above. That will never change. The track owners own the track, right. Its up to them.


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#132 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 06:12 PM

I just don't see the need for 3 different motor choices.

Good luck and happy racing whatever a Florida decides.
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#133 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 06:24 PM

The GTP car class could be limited to just the Hawk 7. However, I would prefer the Hawk 6, and the RH, the RH for continuity from #2 to #3 to #4. Less expensive racing than the OSS.


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#134 Danny Zona

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 07:59 PM

The problem with the hawk 6 arm, from what I hear from motor builders.

I know My Series rules don't allow this but how can it be truly detected?

The arm is easy to advance the timing.
The arm is easy to dewind.
We are allowed to balance the arm. So that means cut tip balancing can be done.

Just another reason for FK style motors, IMO.
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#135 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 08:04 PM

Danny, Thats good information; kind of knowledge we need to consider when deciding on next year's My Series rules. Maybe we are right. Hawk 7 and RH in GTP.


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#136 Jay Guard

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 08:16 PM

This is all good honest discussion, but let's remember that a BIT of compromise can go a long way to make something great for EVERYONE.


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#137 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 08:39 PM

I agree with you Jay. Tthere has been no comprimise from the other side, whereas there is compromise in my proposal.


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#138 Danny Zona

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 09:04 PM

On my hawk 6 arm post.

I don't believe anybody has done any of those things. I doubt anybody in our group would.

It's just a possibility that it could happen.
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Test, test, test and go test some more.
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#139 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 04 October 2015 - 10:15 PM

Treasury should give Jeff a flexi roller with a bullet RH, Kelly Retro tires, and a Kelly Daytona body if he runs flexi 2016...he is getting the short end of the arm shaft and I'm sorry for that.  Jeff deserves a 5 foot high trophy for dealing with MYS chaos.   

 

Add an incentive for the tech director in 2016

Add incentives to improve the program

Ditch the name, start fresh, give a prize for the winner of the new name contest.

Set new goals - increase racer count should be priority one!


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#140 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 05:01 AM

On my hawk 6 arm post.

I don't believe anybody has done any of those things. I doubt anybody in our group would.

It's just a possibility that it could happen.

 

I do know of one racer that did run a motor in LMP with an advanced comm.  He had to withdraw before the race ended because the motor went south, and the only way I knew about it was he told me what he did. He was fast in the race and did qualify very well.  So yeah, the possibility exists and it's up to racer's honesty and integrity, but if you go to  the same sealed motor (Retro Hawk) in all classes, that pretty much goes away. It's like the army, they give you a lock to put on your foot locker to keep honest people honest.


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#141 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 05:03 AM

Don't worry no matter what happens the number of retro races will not diminish.

 

This is the best part of this whole discussion to me.


"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#142 tonyp

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 06:05 AM

Anytime you can work on the motor, people will cheat, or at least the though will run through their head. RH eliminates that.
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#143 Twisted Metal

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 08:00 AM

After getting caught up on all of these posts last night i'm glad to see the progress that has been made to date. All of the communications and compromise in making it easier for Florida slot car racers to be competitive in a Florida series while keeping racers costs down would be huge. There are a lot of great flexi car racers in this state that i feel would come out to compete if the rules were kept simple as being discussed. By going with just the RH motors for NASCAR & GTP the competition will be a lot closer and more fun for all of the racers. And the best part, all of this can be done on a low budget. Fast Eddie's Raceway will be switching over to the RH motors in January for both the NASCAR & GTP classes. 

I am more that willing to hold any of the Florida My Series or Outlaw Series races on my tracks in the upcoming year but have not heard from anyone to date for further discussions. Looking forward to all of these rules being worked out and the future of slot car racing in Florida.


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#144 Danny Zona

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 10:28 AM

After getting caught up on all of these posts last night i'm glad to see the progress that has been made to date. All of the communications and compromise in making it easier for Florida slot car racers to be competitive in a Florida series while keeping racers costs down would be huge. There are a lot of great flexi car racers in this state that i feel would come out to compete if the rules were kept simple as being discussed. By going with just the RH motors for NASCAR & GTP the competition will be a lot closer and more fun for all of the racers. And the best part, all of this can be done on a low budget. Fast Eddie's Raceway will be switching over to the RH motors in January for both the NASCAR & GTP classes. 
I am more that willing to hold any of the Florida My Series or Outlaw Series races on my tracks in the upcoming year but have not heard from anyone to date for further discussions. Looking forward to all of these rules being worked out and the future of slot car racing in Florida.

I've talked with Greg a while back and we want to run nascar and gtp with retro hawk motors also. He is willing to host an Outlaw race if it was ever to get started.

We are working on building up some locals and start racing, hopefully. I have a few young guns lined up. We have a couple Jacksonville racers wanting to race also.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
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Be a fountain not a drain.

It's not about being right, it's getting it right.

#145 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 11:04 AM

A little philosophy here. I think what Ralph has done with the Outlaw rules and organizing a new series is awesome. He diffinately has my respect for doing so. :clapping: ​ However, we need to realize that Ralph started from a clean slate because there was no organized racing at the time. No carry-over. Therefore, there was no baggage.

 

With the My Series series, it has been continuous for many years. My Series grew out of on older series back in 2008 (maybe). For the last 7 years or so, the My Series format has been run in Florida going through many changes as it kept up with motors and bodies and other issues.  (I have personally experienced this since 2010.) With My Series, there has been a lot of carry-over and baggage.  I am sure that the directors of My Series will come up with a reasonable set of car classes and rules for 2016.


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#146 Half Fast

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 11:50 AM

Guys-

 

Let me congratulate all on this thoughtful, civil and useful discussion on all sides. Slot car racing in Florida will be the better for it, regardless of the outcome. :good:

 

Cheers


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#147 Michael Jr.

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 04:29 PM

A moment for education: Help me to understand why the RH seems to be a favorite over a traditional 16D by Proslot or some other manufacturer.
I'm fairly new compares to virtually everyone reading this but thus far....I've understood the 16D to be the foundational motor for 1:23 and 1:32 flexi racing.
I know Parma is offline with this but there's plenty others out there.

Not a relevant point for your series. But I need some training on this issue. I don't need to end up the one guy in the US using 16D for everything.

Michael Cannon Jr


#148 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 06:37 PM

Very simple, Michael.  16D technology should have died off about 25 years ago and been replaced by C can motors, but thanks to Parma, it just never went away.  

 

Enter the Retro Hawk, a much improved version of the Falcon 7 with better quality, a tied comm, better bushings, magnets and brushes, and performance on par with a 16D.  Given two matching cars, both with the same chassis, body, quality components, with the only difference being the motor, eight times out of ten the Retro Hawk powered car will beat the 16D in a flexi simply because of the lighter weight, and slightly lower center of gravity since it's smaller.

 

Granted you can buy cheap Pro Slot sealed 16D  motors, but you have to go through several to get a good one and overall quality is just not there anymore.  Retro Hawks, once properly broken in, either by water method, or on a power supply, are pretty dang equal, and most people can get up to five or six races of a motor with good treatment.

 

In Florida in the My Series, we had a special tagged American made arm made by Pro Slot, marked FL16D, with fixed 30 degree comm timing.  When they first came out, the quality was very, very good, then over the years, the quality got worse and the performance very uneven. Now, you may have to buy 10 arms to get two good ones, but even so, it is 30 year old technology that should have been replaced.  For $12.99, you can buy a Retro Hawk, break it in, and go racing, get four to six races out of it, plus some practice, when it loses brakes, buy another one of the shelf , break it in, and put it in the car.

 

Or you can buy 10 $25.99 Pro Slot armatures to get two good performing ones and hope they last a season, then contend with a car thats 10 grams heavier than the guy next to you that's running a Retro Hawk who is eating you alive in the donut. Not to mention the cost of the items that go with a 16D motor program like a magnet matcher, magnet zapper, can tools, bearing installation tools, diamond hones, comm lathe, etc.  You don't have to have a motor program like that.....a simple cheap throw away motor, that doesn't allow tampering and keeps everybody pretty equal is all you need. 

 

This from a guy who had a pretty good 16D and S16D Pro Slot motor program. My box pretty much looked like the picture Danny showed above.  Never again.


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#149 Michael Jr.

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 06:54 PM

Ok.... I'm nearly convinced. That's why I like this blog. I always learn something.

Michael Cannon Jr


#150 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 08:03 PM

Ask TonyP about this.  He raced and won with 16d motors 40+ years ago.  Retro guys are wise guys...

 


Charlie McCullough

Charlie's Speed Shop

JK Hawk Horsepower Specialist

Bartos Chassis  CHR Cars

Outisight Bodies

Mossetti Racing

 






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