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Always piss downwind...
Counterfeit Pro Slot motor seals
Started by
Robert Mason
, Apr 23 2016 01:29 PM
91 replies to this topic
#51
Zippity
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Posted 24 April 2016 - 05:32 PM
#52
CDavis7
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Posted 24 April 2016 - 06:57 PM
OK. Maybe I will get banned for this, but I have to ask the question because I am confused... The OP was about whether or not fake Pro Slot seals were being used. I was concerned that this might be the case.
But then the thread drifted into Fast Ones seals being placed on other motors. Ron can put his seal on anything he wants. Hell, I bet if I send Ron a 16D to refurb and ask him to wrap the whole damn thing in Fast Ones tape then he'd happily oblige.
My point is this, is somebody using fake Pro Slot seals? If so, let's focus on that issue and not whether or not Ron put a seal on motor at the request of a customer.
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#53
MSwiss
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Posted 24 April 2016 - 07:49 PM
I disagree this is not part of the story.
My point is that there is a 4002FK arm readily available, that has been rebalanced by an American rebalancer, that the seal counterfeiter can use.
Up until recently, it hasn't been the case.
IOW, Fast Ones has clearly marked they have worked on the motor.
But once the counterfeiters removes the Fast Ones seal, can it be determined it's been worked on?
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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#54
Samiam
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Posted 24 April 2016 - 08:22 PM
OK. Maybe I will get banned for this, but I have to ask the question because I am confused... The OP was about whether or not fake Pro Slot seals were being used. I was concerned that this might be the case.
But then the thread drifted into Fast Ones seals being placed on other motors. Ron can put his seal on anything he wants. Hell, I bet if I send Ron a 16D to refurb and ask him to wrap the whole damn thing in Fast Ones tape then he'd happily oblige.
My point is this, is somebody using fake Pro Slot seals? If so, let's focus on that issue and not whether or not Ron put a seal on motor at the request of a customer.
'zackly!
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Sam Levitch
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)
"... because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook."
Richard M .Nixon, Nov 17, 1973
"Fool me once, same on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again."
George W. Bush
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)
"... because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook."
Richard M .Nixon, Nov 17, 1973
"Fool me once, same on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again."
George W. Bush
#55
MSwiss
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Posted 24 April 2016 - 08:36 PM
If Cheater feels the two subjects aren't connected, he certainly can split them off into two threads.
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#56
Fast Freddie
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Posted 25 April 2016 - 11:16 AM
Is there a general consensus that 4002FK motors cannot be sent back to Pro Slot to be refurbed if the seals remain intact? That's new to me. Since Pro Slot provides refurbishing services why not send a very good motor back and have it refurbished? It would fix any small problems and get a fresh motor for a small cost.
Tony, please listen to the song again, it's "blowing in the wind." I just hate when old music gets bastardized just to make a point. If you weren't referring to the music, my apologies, but to the alert about fake PS seals then I truly get the "pissing in the wind" comment. It's not the first time people tried to help and were told to "get lost" or that they were just "pissing in the wind", now is it?
Tony, please listen to the song again, it's "blowing in the wind." I just hate when old music gets bastardized just to make a point. If you weren't referring to the music, my apologies, but to the alert about fake PS seals then I truly get the "pissing in the wind" comment. It's not the first time people tried to help and were told to "get lost" or that they were just "pissing in the wind", now is it?
Fred Younkin
#57
John Streisguth
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Posted 25 April 2016 - 11:25 AM
The 4002FK was designed to be non-refurbishable. Supposedly the endbell is glued and screwed to the can. Not to say it's impossible to separate them (I've seen claims that it's quite easy) but that defeats the original intent of the motor. Especially spending $18 to refurb a $15 motor.
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#58
tonyp
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Posted 25 April 2016 - 02:18 PM
Exactly.
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Anthony 'Tonyp' Przybylowicz
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#59
Racer36
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Posted 25 April 2016 - 02:48 PM
Not sure I have heard that version, Tony. Is it on iTunes?
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Dennis Dominey
#60
tonyp
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Posted 25 April 2016 - 03:17 PM
LOL. Bootleg.
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#61
Rick
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Posted 25 April 2016 - 03:21 PM
Trying to get this out to all the tracks and series in the area. Someone in area has printed up some Pro Slot vinyl motor seals. These stretch when you pull on them rather than tearing like the original ones.
Robert,
What prompted you are check the seal in the first place?
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#62
Mark Crowley
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Posted 25 April 2016 - 09:56 PM
The real Pro Slot seals tend to lose little bits and pieces when you install and clean the motors. I don't see how anyone could blueprint a motor and reinstall the original seal. The seal in the first post looks like it was abused and still in one piece.
Mark
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#63
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Posted 25 April 2016 - 11:30 PM
I have to say how much I love this thread. This is truly a tempest in a teapot. I can't wait till a faux tape is identified. Oh, the humanity!
Mark Bauer
#64
Rob Voska
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Posted 26 April 2016 - 06:42 AM
88 teams at the ISRA Worlds and no hand-out motor problems. USRA Scale Nats were last week and no motor problems. Tagged arms don't seem to be a problem in scale or wing. An oval race with $13 stickered motors just adds two more pages of "spec motor" crap to the other 2,000 pages of "spec motor" crap. Now tell me again what works and what don't? Buller... BULLER!
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#65
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Posted 26 April 2016 - 07:26 AM
Locks are for honest people.
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#66
havlicek
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Posted 26 April 2016 - 07:38 AM
The 4002FK was designed to be non-refurbishable. Supposedly the endbell is glued and screwed to the can. Not to say it's impossible to separate them (I've seen claims that it's quite easy) but that defeats the original intent of the motor.
It's very easy.
-john
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John Havlicek
#67
Fast Freddie
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Posted 26 April 2016 - 10:12 AM
Just to clear up the misconception, those endbells are not glued on. That may have been the original intent but the last four I took apart were just screwed on and the can tabs were bent. Not hard at all to separate the two.
True, $18 to refurb a $13 motor may not be worth it. It's all about going after the elusive top 1% motor without spending gads of money. If you got a really good motor, why not get it refurbed? It could improve, or not.
Fred Younkin
#68
John Streisguth
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Posted 26 April 2016 - 11:28 AM
So much for them being "tamperproof"...
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#69
Samiam
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Posted 26 April 2016 - 03:48 PM
Is it tampering if the tamperer is an "Approved Tamperer"?
Sam Levitch
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)
"... because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook."
Richard M .Nixon, Nov 17, 1973
"Fool me once, same on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again."
George W. Bush
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)
"... because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook."
Richard M .Nixon, Nov 17, 1973
"Fool me once, same on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again."
George W. Bush
#70
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Posted 26 April 2016 - 04:05 PM
Is it tampering if the tamperer is an "Approved Tamperer"?
I believe the operative word there is "if".
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#71
Samiam
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Posted 26 April 2016 - 04:16 PM
... and "approved" by WHOM?
Sam Levitch
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)
"... because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook."
Richard M .Nixon, Nov 17, 1973
"Fool me once, same on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again."
George W. Bush
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)
"... because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook."
Richard M .Nixon, Nov 17, 1973
"Fool me once, same on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again."
George W. Bush
#72
CDavis7
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Posted 26 April 2016 - 07:06 PM
Has anyone sent the seal to Pro Slot to ask their opinion?
This would be a reasonable step.
This would be a reasonable step.
Chris Davis
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#73
Bill from NH
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Posted 26 April 2016 - 07:15 PM
Is it tampering if the tamperer is an "Approved Tamperer"?
Any "approved tamperer" should also have "approved tape." 
I have days when I'm glad I don't do sealed motor racing. 
Bill Fernald
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I intend to live forever! So far, so good.
#74
MSwiss
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Posted 26 April 2016 - 08:52 PM
Has anyone sent the seal to Pro Slot to ask their opinion?
This would be a reasonable step.
Unless the person/cheater,somehow, sold a motor with the vinyl seal to an unsuspecting non-cheater, how would that be possible?
What I've always wondered is if someone approached a company that sells genuine security seals, and asked for a seal to be made that is the same as an existing one they make, do they refuse the order and/or contact the "legitimate" company, informing them of what is going on.
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#75
Phil Hackett
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Posted 26 April 2016 - 09:22 PM
Very legit question.
The bigger question is whether that seal company is desperate enough for money or gets an indemnification from the customer. Counterfeiting is a Federal crime... it's not just money the Feds are concerned with but someone needs to make a complaint first (and have reasonable evidence).
Who's going to pay for the investigation to get credible evidence?
The bigger question is whether that seal company is desperate enough for money or gets an indemnification from the customer. Counterfeiting is a Federal crime... it's not just money the Feds are concerned with but someone needs to make a complaint first (and have reasonable evidence).
Who's going to pay for the investigation to get credible evidence?
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