Here we are with yet another motor issue in Retro racing. As an IRRA® BoD member I can assure you we are working towards a solution. Some of you wanted this "fixed" yesterday but I think you already know that's not feasible. We can not make a "knee jerk" reaction to this because it is at the core of our program. Act too fast, without all the information and without studying all the possibilities, and you often compound the problem. And for the conspiracy theorists out there, well don't you think we should wait for confirmation and all the evidence before we lynch Tim and JK? There will be a solution.
As a track owner and a Premiere Race host it is my responsibility to make my event as fair and fun as possible. To that end I will do what I think needs to be done, up to and including hand-outs in all classes, to make things as level as possible. I firmly believe the IRRA® will come up with a workable solution if this is indeed a major problem and not just a momentary blip. However we have no control over the Chinese manufacturers and little sway with JK. We simply don't have a big enough economic punch.
I personally believe there is no ulterior motive or greed agenda associated with this from JK. But we are at his mercy if any motor changes need to be made.
I'm posting this now so those that hate hand-outs will know that, as of now, hand-outs are a possibility at the R4/10. If that changes your mind and you won't attend then I'm sorry. I'm hoping that a solution is coming soon and this will be a non-issue.
R4/10 motor announcement
#1
Posted 25 October 2016 - 02:23 PM
- Cheater, Pappy, brnursebmt and 20 others like this
#2
Posted 25 October 2016 - 03:19 PM
Not that it matters to the masses, but hand-out or not I'm planning on being there. Whatever the rules are at the time... well... that's what they are.
- Joe Mig, Les Boyd and Samiam like this
#3
Posted 25 October 2016 - 07:36 PM
- NSwanberg and Scott Hall like this
#4
Posted 25 October 2016 - 08:10 PM
Thank you for posting, Mike. Can't wait for R4/10 run what you brung or hand-out... March can't come fast enough.
#5
Posted 25 October 2016 - 09:26 PM
IMO, why not just mandate use of the new motors? This keeps it "fair" without having to go handout.
Guys can use up the old motors for weekly/series racing, keep the big races to what's still readily available.
- Pappy, JerseyJohn and DOCinCanton like this
#6
Posted 25 October 2016 - 09:42 PM
IMO everyone racing under the same rules evens the field and keeps things fair.
After that it skill, determination and a little luck... Any Hawk can be used same as a PD with or without bearing.
That's it!!!
- Ramcatlarry likes this
John Chas Molnar
"Certified Newark Wise Guy since 1984" (retired)
"Certified Tony P Chassis God 2007.2023
Retro Chassis Designer-Builder
#7
Posted 25 October 2016 - 10:05 PM
Cap,
I think it's too early to make any ruling.
We have seen the new motor, inning Sano 10 in F1, setting a new lap record.
Running second fast lap time,last weekend, and finishing third in F1, at Tom Thumb, my guess, Jason's best Retro race finish to date.
Running fast time by a .1, in Can-Am in one of the Mains, at Post Jeff, a speedbowl.
And at the same track, a TQ, a new track record, and a second place, in Stock Car.
Seems like too many stellar performances not to let guys with older motors battle against them.
- Jason Holmes likes this
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#8
Posted 26 October 2016 - 07:17 AM
#9
Posted 26 October 2016 - 07:35 AM
#10
Posted 26 October 2016 - 07:37 AM
#11
Posted 26 October 2016 - 07:56 AM
Mike,
I fully understand all of that, but Mike M is already posting the possibility of hand-outs at R4, so I was posting a possible solution for that race.
I realize only allowing the new motors isn't a viable solution across the board for all IRRA® races, but for this big race it seems like a fair option without going full hand-out.
#12
Posted 26 October 2016 - 08:12 AM
Kudos, Mike, for exploring all options
#13
Posted 26 October 2016 - 08:43 AM
#14
Posted 26 October 2016 - 10:01 AM
LOL.
- DOCinCanton likes this
Anthony 'Tonyp' Przybylowicz
5/28/50-12/20/21
Requiescat in Pace
#15
Posted 26 October 2016 - 10:25 AM
Actually it wasn't, Swiss. But way to sound so nice.
Jason,
I usually glance at all the Retro results, but if you've finished better than third in a field that large/strong, I apologize.
My point was that it wasn't third in an eight-entry race.
I'll add my name to the list of whatever motor rules McMasters decides on; they wouldn't be a factor in my participation.
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#16
Posted 26 October 2016 - 11:07 AM
#17
Posted 26 October 2016 - 12:57 PM
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#18
Posted 13 December 2016 - 08:37 AM
So... hand-outs or no R4/10?
#20
Posted 31 December 2016 - 03:18 PM
After much thought and discussions with racers I have decided to split the two premier classes, one hand-out and one not. I don’t think there is any perfect solution to the "motor problems" some think we have and I’m not convinced hand-outs are an answer. But I do think it is worth trying and doing so "back to back" should help to compare the two options.
GTC and GTC Pro will, of course, remain "hand-out" classes. This year Can-Am will also use hand-outs. The motor will be the JK Retro Hawk with a new tamperproof seal. Any motor purchased for the GTC classes will be eligible for Can-Am only if the unused motor(s) are surrendered at the time of GTC tech and the motor used in GTC remains in the car and the car is impounded until Can-Am motors are handed out Saturday morning. No exceptions. Both Senior and regular Can-Am divisions will be the same. F1 will remain the same as before and use racer supplied IRRA® legal motors.
If you look at recent races IRRA® Retro racing has never seen closer results. Hand-outs may(?) help calm claims of inconsistency in motors, cheating with the motors, or complaints that some buy dozens of motors to find that "magic bullet." Time will tell.
The logistics of handing out motors at a race the size of the R4 are complicated. I think I have a plan that will have as small as possible impact on time while still allowing equal and adequate time to prepare your hand-out motors. Regardless it will add some length to the day. That is one reason I decided not to use hand-outs for F1 on Sunday. I don’t want to delay your trip home any more than needed.
This may turn out to be a great “equalizer.” If so I will look at expanding hand-outs to all classes and more events. Or not. It could be a huge “cluster.” If so I will look at what went wrong and if it can, or should, be fixed. No matter, the tenth running of the R4 will be close, competitive, and a ton of fun.
In addition to the Senior divisions and Can-Am hand-outs we are looking at a few more things to make the tenth running of the R4 stand out from the rest.
Stay tuned!!!
BTW... I'm locking this topic for a week to avoid "knee-jerk" responses. I'm sure there will be as many opinions about this as there are racers in Retro. If you just can't wait to blow me up, send an email or a PM.
- Cheater, MSwiss, Steve Deiters and 7 others like this
#21
Posted 09 January 2017 - 12:03 AM
- brnursebmt, Half Fast, Steve Deiters and 2 others like this
#22
Posted 09 January 2017 - 12:24 AM
1) How much will motors cost?
2) If we purchase four motors on Friday for the GTC race, can we purchase more motors on Saturday for the Can-Am?
3) Will Friday's motors need to be turned in at GTC tech or at the end of the day?
4) How are all the racers going to get enough track time on Friday???
- John Good likes this
#23
Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:41 AM
The track time to break-in/test motors is my number one concern.
Any thought to being able to get motors Thursday to allow more time?
- gfox likes this
#24
Posted 09 January 2017 - 09:46 AM
Thanks but no thanks.
- JerseyJohn, Cap Henry, Bernie and 1 other like this
Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"
"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.
#25
Posted 09 January 2017 - 09:47 AM
I'll keep it simple. The rules will be the rules. They affect everyone equally. Once we pay our entry fee a racer agrees to conform to them. I don't have a problem with that and hopefully other racers will also.
Sounds like a lot of effort and thought was put into this policy before commitment of this program not to mention decades of experience by Mike McMasters that brought it to bear. I'll defer to these factors any day and look forward to the R4/10. I hope other racers will do so also.
See everyone in March.
- Cheater, brnursebmt, B.C. and 3 others like this