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The 1971 Steube RTR


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#51 dc-65x

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 03:53 PM

I had to flatten out the pans and put the buff to them:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2064.jpg

 

The chassis is finished:   :dance3:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2061.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2060.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2059.jpg

 

The front of the pans have a Steube style stop:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2062.jpg

 

Time for a motor :D


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#52 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 03:58 PM

It looks great.


Eddie Fleming

#53 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 04:02 PM

Another beauty Rick! Now we'll enjoy watching it become a complete slot car. :)


Bill Fernald

 

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#54 don.siegel

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 04:14 PM

Really pretty Rick! Another beautiful job! 

 

Don 



#55 Jaz

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 04:39 PM

That one had a S25 and a Faas 9/42 ratio for the Speed & Sport AMCRC "Blue King" track that was not in the best of condition at the time.

I seem to remember we ran S24's and 9/47 at Buzzy's and it worked at Nutley. Needed to pull thru all the glue.


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#56 Pablo

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 05:11 PM

Man, if that doesn't draw Mike Steube out of his cave, nothing will :o

Shock and awe :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:


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#57 dc-65x

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 06:20 PM

Thanks guys :)

 

Here's an interesting motor building article. It's from the Miniature Auto Racing Newsletter 1 month before their article on the Steube RTR:       (CLICK ON IMAGE TO ENLARGE)

 

MAR Gilbert mtr build pg 1.JPG

 

MAR Gilbert mtr build pg 2.JPG


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#58 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 07:21 PM

That's a good concise motor build article Rick. Ill have to compare it to that in the CM Gilbert chassis building series. I keep an old Ungar tip around to deal with oilites. I set them on the hot tip until they stop smoking. If for endbell use, I drop them in a bottle cap of clean oil. If for cans or axles, I let them cool before soldering them in dry. Once soldered, I apply clean oil.. I don't recall if I got my procedure from the article you just posted, or from John Ford, but thanks for posting it again.


Bill Fernald

 

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#59 TSR

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 03:55 PM

What happened is that I was kind of in racing partnership with Lee Gilbert at the time, and when the story came out, Bill Steube was not too happy because there was a strong rivalry between the Steube gang and the Gilbert/Green gang. So I was asked to write a story on the Steube car, and this is why both were on the newspaper.


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#60 dc-65x

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 08:23 PM

I'm sure glad you did Philippe. :good:

 

Here's the heart of my motor:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2011.jpg

 

It's not a hand wound masterpiece but it is a new old stock single 24 arm by Certus:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2010.jpg

 

The comm needed some truing up:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%209.jpg

 

She's ready to rock now :dance3:


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#61 SlotStox#53

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 08:58 PM

Any spicy phat wire arm from back then is cool :D Chassis came out fantastic Rick!

#62 Tex

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 11:45 PM

JEEZUS, that's an ugly wind.... we know why it was still NOS!    LOL


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#63 Bill from NH

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 06:46 AM

Sometimes the ugliest looking arms are the fastest. :laugh2:  I never owned Certus arms so this is my first up close look ar one. Certus sold some unique products in the day, they didn't just rebadge another manufacturer's items.


Bill Fernald

 

You have to be odd to be #1. :laugh2: 


#64 dc-65x

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 10:01 AM

I wondered if Certus was just a "re-packager" of things like, for example, REHco was Bill.

 

Yes Tex, it is ugly up close! :laugh2:  But hopefully being new old stock and with no visible signs of corrosion damage, it will run for a bit before it blows up. :unknw:

 

Perhaps, since the wind is UGLY, I shouldn't have opened up the can holes....but I think it's a cool touch:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2020.jpg

 

I also tapped both can mounting holes for 2-56 machine screws...........

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2019.jpg

 

.............and to make the motor bracket fit nice and flat when screwed to the can (like the one on the left)..................

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%204.jpg

 

I used Mr. Milling Machine to flatten out the back of the can (shown on the right):

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2021.jpg

 

Magnets are next......


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#65 don.siegel

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 12:28 PM

Nice! 

 

Pretty sure that Certus was a small producer, like Dyna, but don't know if they had ties with any major manufacturers - don't think so, since they had a factory team (Mike Staskie in particular) that competed with the other guys. They were a well known name in Chicago, not sure about the coasts. 

 

Don 



#66 dc-65x

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 06:55 PM

I'm looking forward to seeing how the Certus arm runs Don.

 

I forgot to show a picture of the parts I'm using in the can along with a vintage packaged piece:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%203.jpg

 

I know the MAR articles talk about using ARCO and DZ magnets but I have more Blue Dots so that's what I'm going with.

 

I assemble the magnets in the can, positioned them so the arm floats, measured the offset distance and then bonded the magnets into the can at that offset distance:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2028.jpg

 

I honed the air gap to .530" in 3 steps with an end bell opened up for the job. I used a ground down oilite bearing that's a slip fit into the can to save my ball bearing from getting filled with magnet dust..........

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2025.jpg

 

.............then a ZAP with the Big Dog...........

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2027.jpg

 

............and finished off the can with a tinned area to solder the motor in and a black wrinkle paint job:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2065.jpg

 

End bell time :D


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#67 TSR

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 07:25 PM

"Pretty sure that Certus was a small producer, like Dyna, but don't know if they had ties with any major manufacturers."

Don, Certus was in Muenster, IN.  They were far smaller than Dyna-Rewind in sales volume. Like Dyna, they purchased their basic parts from other larger manufacturers. At first, they used like everyone, Mabuchi parts, removing arm wire from FT16 and FT26 motors, fitting Tradeship comms and winding them to their own spec.
They never used Champion parts, but when Mura issued their "D-size" motors in 1968, they purchased armature blanks and endbells from Mura, stuffing them in Tradeship cans. Later they also experimented with Associated "oval-hole" cans. When Mura got their dreadful "B" motor on the market, Certus marketed plenty of motors and parts using B parts, that eventually led to their demise. This is an excerpt of that book that refuses to be born:

"Certus was a small company based in Muenster, IN. In 1966, Marty Varney and Dave Cleary began rewinding motors for their own use at G&G Hobbies in Griffith. They also offered their rewinding services, advertising in period specialized newspapers. This grew into a small business. At first, Mabuchi FT16 motors were offered, the “610” and “612” using the standard FT16 can, while the “614” were rewound versions of the 1967 FT16DBB with the can-side ball bearing. When the new “medium” Mabuchi became available, Certus marketed an FT26 motor featuring an air cooled endbell (probably obtained from SimCo) called the “622”. As technology progressed, Certus purchased cans from Tradeship in which they placed their own magnets apparently obtained from a supplier in Japan, while endbells molded in a special blue color, armature blanks and inner magnet shims were obtained from Mura. When the Mura “B” can design became available, Certus again marketed “B” parts under the label “Baby X” and had their own rewound versions of the motors featuring purple endbells, but like most “B” based motors, they failed (see “Mura”) and it eventually signified the end of the company. They briefly had a “factory” team in 1969, with pro-racers Mike Staskie and Lee Gilbert being helped by the little company. In 1969, they introduced upgraded version of the Mura low-profile motor called “Super Bee”, but by that time, the Mura “B” was already a boat anchor to the serious racers."

certus_615.jpg

certus_615_case.jpg

certus-ad-2.jpg



 

 





 


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#68 dc-65x

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 06:15 PM

Great info and pictures Philippe, Thanks!

 

Here is the pile-O-parts for the endbell. The elephant ear heat sinks won't be used. They don't quite clear the body I'll be using. It's all Mura stuff except for the repop comm cooler and stainless steel machine screws (no self tapping stuff):

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%205.jpg

 

Here's a comparison between the early and late C-can end bells. The "small bearing" end bell on the right (which I'll be using on this '71 build) is really a modified B-can end bell modified by Mura to fit the narrower C-can. The Mura C-can specific  and commonly encountered "big bearing" end bell is on the left:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2067.jpg

 

The end bell needs some cutting up. It at least needs a frame clearance notch and I've also added comm inspection holes as shown on the end bell on the right:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2030.jpg

 

The small bearing used is a carry over size going back to the B-motor and even the Mabuchi 16D. I polished its face which probably doesn't do anything but it was fun:  :crazy:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2018.jpg

 

On the right below is the stock Mura brush post screw and bushing. On the left is a #2 machine screw, reversed bushing and fiber insulator. In the center is the assembled piece:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2012.jpg

 

The brush hoods with the wire buss bars (shown on the bottom) installed:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%208.jpg

 

Since this is a low profile B-motor endbell, brass shims are needed to center it up in the taller C-can. The sketch on the Post-it note is something I made 20 years ago from the parts in a new in the package Mura-Green motor kit I bought from PdL.

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%207.jpg

 

The finished end bell:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%206a.jpg

 

Motor assembly time :dance3:


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#69 slotbaker

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 06:44 PM

Engineering masterclass.

:heart:


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#70 dc-65x

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 08:33 PM

Thanks Steve. :)

 

Check out the real deal Steube end bell PdL restored and photographed for us. It's a bit later "big bearing" than my early '71 "small bearing":

 

pdl-ws-72-5.jpg

 

pdl-ws-72-13.jpg

 

Very cool :sun_bespectacled:


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#71 dc-65x

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:06 AM

The motor is done and so far so good:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2071.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2070.jpg

 

It draws 1.9 amps at 3 volts and doesn't get crazy hot:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2069.jpg

 

The brush spring is completely insulated from electric current by that fiber washer and the clear Teflon tube spring insulation. The shunt wire doesn't contact the brush spring:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2073.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2072.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2068.jpg

 

Time to get this motor installed in the chassis...........


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#72 Martin

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 12:27 PM

Mechanical jewelry,  :good:  


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#73 olescratch

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 02:44 PM

Was silver solder used to attach the buss bars to the endbell?  Very nice work, glad to see the step-by-step pictorial.


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#74 Pablo

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 02:56 PM

Very sick :good: :heart: :heart: :heart:


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#75 dc-65x

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 04:18 PM

Thanks guys. Yes John, I used Slick7 598 degree silver solder on the buss bars. I think Joel Montague's screw on method is more bullet proof but that's another story :) Below is a replica motor I made of one of Joel's beasts:

 

Montagur motor 018.JPG

 

Montagur motor 019a.JPG


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#76 dc-65x

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 05:00 PM

The motor has 2 mounting screw holes. To use the bottom hole I filed a little notch in the half rail:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2074.jpg

 

The screw head on the left was ground down a bit...........

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2022.jpg

 

..........and with the mounting surface on the can milled nice and flat the motor screws down nice and tight without and can distortion. The rear motor brace soldered on super easy on the pre-tinned can surface:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2080.jpg

 

The pinion above is a modern Sonic. It meshes beautifully with a vintage Fass 45T spur gear:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2013.jpg

 

Wheels and tires coming up...........


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#77 dc-65x

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:46 PM

For wheels and tires on my Steube RTR inspired racer I'm using Steube Stabilizers....of course! :dance3:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2076.jpg

 

The fronts are 1/8" so I had to use some Fass 3/32" reducers:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2014.jpg

 

The rears are 3/32":

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2078.jpg

 

Up close:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2077.jpg

 

The guide is a green JET flag. A color PdL once told me Steube often used. The lead wires are pre-soldered vintage items:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2089.jpg

 

Almost ready test........


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#78 SlotStox#53

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:11 PM

:heart:

Look very similar to the telescoping "Associated" rims.. Should finish the car off beautifully!

#79 Pablo

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 05:13 AM

Drooling on keyboard :laugh2:


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#80 Martin

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 02:23 PM

Hey Rick, while working on my Gilbert car I read he used 5/8" fronts but the pics in the article clearly showed 3/4" fronts the same as you plan to use on this build. So I realized that it might of been common to take the 3/4" fronts and turn them smaller as the rules allowed 5/8" front at this time.

In the pics of your Steube RTR you can see that the front rubber have been turned down really close the the wheel, low profile tires for sure. It dose allow the body to fit that much lower. Just wanted to get your opinion on this small detail.

Do you plan to turn your tires down?

I did cut one set of Steube fronts to .690" keeping the step about .020"smaller than that.The rubber is hard enough it cuts nice, smooth and of course takes any hop out.  I stopped there because I did not want to lower the front axle on a vintage chassis.


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#81 dc-65x

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:41 PM

Hi Martin,

 

I'm running 3/4" fronts and although the Steube RTR in the article is running 13/16" rears, the rules this car is being built for require 7/8".


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#82 dc-65x

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:10 PM

The roller is finished....almost. More on that later. Here's the real deal and my Steube "inspired" version:

 

MAR%204-71%20pg14%20-%20top.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2083.jpg

 

A big difference is I'm using Steube pans with the half circle cutouts which are super cool:

 

MAR%204-71%20pg14%20-%20bottom.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2085.jpg

 

Mine is not a "clone" but there isn't much I did differently from the original Steube beauty:

 

MAR%204-71%20pg15%20-%20Copy.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2086.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2088.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2087.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2082.jpg

 

Next up is the body.......what will it be?


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#83 Martin

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 11:00 PM

Seems a shame to cover such a work of art, but a Kirby 312p would be period correct I think? A bit more down force that your average M8 


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#84 Gator Bob

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 11:22 PM

Amazing and totally over the top Rick.

It's so perfect a clear body would be fine.


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                            Bob Israelite


#85 dc-65x

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:31 AM

Thanks Bob, that's a tempting idea Bob as painting and detailing are my least favorite part of the build. :crazy:

Very close to what I've chosen Martin! :)  But first............

 

The Steube car in the MAR article had a body I'd not heard of before, a Vanguard Ferrari 612:

 

MAR%204-71%20pg14%20-%20body.jpg

 

Searching through my 70's PRO style bodies I found this:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%20102.jpg

 

It is Butyrate plastic, not Lexan, and factory trimmed:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%20101.jpg

 

It looks like somebodies Ferrari 612 but I couldn't find a match with Kirby, MAC, Associated, Lancer or Dynamic. That doesn't mean there isn't a match, but I couldn't it.

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%20100.jpg

 

Is this a Vanguard Ferrari 612?  :unknw:


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#86 Martin

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 12:14 PM

Looks like a good pic to me.

I will look through my boxed collection and see if I can find a match, a long shot but I am curious.

I put unpainted bodies on a few of my cars for display, Saves the stress of painting a rare body and shows off the chassis. 

 

I did find one VANGUARD MODELS body boxed but it is a Lola. Not the Ferrari 612. I had forgotten the Vanguard brand. The Kirby 612 looks close but no top side scoops or head light covers but the same cockpit etc.


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#87 TSR

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:07 PM

Vanguard was yet another instant brand name for bodies pulled by Associated. There were about 6 models if I recall.

"Look very similar to the telescoping "Associated" rims..."

That would be because the "Steube" products (wheels and chassis parts) were Associated products, while the "Mike Steube" motors and arms were SimCo products subcontracted to Mura.
The only "real" Steube products were made by Bill Sr under the "Team Checkpoint by Bill Steube" on the labels. That included father and son since Mike never really built much chassis production, leaving that to his brother.

 



#88 Mbloes

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 03:56 PM

 

 

It is Butyrate plastic, not Lexan, and factory trimmed:

 

 

 

How do you tell?


Mike Bloes

#89 dc-65x

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 06:20 PM

Hi Mike,

 

I used to work at the plastics and advanced composites group at one of our nations national laboratories so that helps............but..........I'm a vintage nut and I've coveted hundreds of these wonderful vintage bodies. :crazy:

 

Old Butyrate bodies often have:

 

a very definite smell.

a very different feel as you flex them.

a much different and duller sound when you tap the body or drop it on the workbench.

Vintage Lexan bodies most often don't exhibit the nice crisp pulls that their butyrate counterparts will.

There are also burn tests that can be done on scraps to help identify different plastics.

 

Sometimes I'm not sure about a body but often it really jumps out at me.


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#90 Mbloes

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 07:06 PM

Thanks.  That body looks really bitchin.


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#91 Jaz

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 07:33 PM

Seems a shame to cover such a work of art, but a Kirby 312p would be period correct I think? A bit more down force that your average M8 

 

Yep.....needs a Kirby Ferrari!


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#92 Samiam

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 07:53 PM

It's so perfect a clear body would be fine.


I agree. Maybe just a racing stripe,numbers and a few sponsor decals.
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#93 dc-65x

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 04:25 PM

Guys, I came across this Miniature Auto Racing Newsletter (MAR) article in the February 1971 issue (the date in the race report tech sheet is a typo error):

 

Steube Ferrari 612 (103).jpg

 

I got to thinking, the motor article I posted for this build came from the March 1971 MAR and the Steube RTR article came from the April 1971 MAR.

 

The body should come from the same series of MAR articles:

 

Steube Ferrari 612 (104).jpg

 

So A Champion - Waters - Bloom Ferrari 612 is it:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2090.jpg

 

It looks pretty cool:  :sun_bespectacled:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2098.jpg

 

It's a nice pull with crisp detail:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2099.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2097.jpg

 

It sits pretty low and swoopy:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2096.jpg

 

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions.........I've always wanted to use one of these and it's calling out to me. :crazy:

 

 


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#94 Jairus

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 04:30 PM

Nice build Rick.
Those Waters bodies are nice, but thin.  Careful trimming.


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#95 Martin

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:19 AM

Somebody got a rivet gun for Christmas. :crazy:


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#96 dc-65x

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 08:25 PM

Thanks Jairus, I've got her trimmed out:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%20105_1.jpg

 

The real car is quite spectacular:

 

Ferrari%20612%206.jpg

 

There is something about a red Ferrari that pushes all my buttons:

 

Ferrari%20612%201.jpg

 

Ferrari%20612%205.jpg

 

It's such a nice body, it even has a real nose with radiator inlet. It's "low and wide" to be sure but it does still look like the real car....just a bit flatter!   :D  

 

Do I really want to do something like this to it..........Lexan side dams, tall rear spoiler, Mylar front diaplane, lay down driver figure, strapping tape and staples?  :o

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%20106.jpg

 

I think I may have another period "Korrect" idea..................stay tuned.  :)


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#97 Half Fast

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:58 PM

Great Build Rick!

 

But who is that Sohl guy whose name keeps popping up in those '70s race reports (see post #93 here), whatever happened to him?

 

Oh wait :shok: :D

 

Cheers


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#98 Tex

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 04:13 PM

what's the wheelbase on that trimmed out Bloom/Waters Ferrri 612? I had one a few years ago.... seems it was pretty short(?)


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#99 dc-65x

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 08:43 PM

Tex the wheelbase is the same as Lee Gilbert used in his well known Car Model Magazine how to article car, 3 13/16".

 

Since I'm not building a replica car from one of the great period PRO's, but rather a car I might have built for my amateur self back in 1971, here's my plan:

 

I am a "hobbyist", meaning I enjoy building models of real cars......cars that are at least "semi-scale" and hopefully go pretty fast too. I am not a "sportsman" that may think of the car primarily as a tool......a tool to him win races. Of course I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, they are just different ways to enjoy slot cars.

The hobbyist in me loves to build slot cars that look like real cars so that's what I going to try to do with this build. When I get in my time machine and go back to my local raceway in 1971 I will be with a group of like minded hobbyist in their local race series.

 

In their series they still want to go fast so they're not using 1" or larger tires but rather 3/4" fronts, 7/8" rears and 3 1/8" track width. But no glue piles on the track and air control is limited to a rear spoiler. A concours event is held in every race that awards some points toward the overall series results.

 

To go after some of those concours points I'm going to put some Cox Ferrari wheels to good use by lathe turning them down for wheel inserts:

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2079.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2094.jpg

 

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2093.jpg

 

My friend Rodney turned me on to the "korrect" decals on eBay:

 

Ferrari%20612%208_2.jpg

 

OK, onward to some simple and light weight engine, interior and, hopefully, transaxle detailing............


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#100 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 09:41 PM

Inserts are awesome, great color choice too.


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