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Maserati 450S Driftin' Fifties proxy car


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#51 Pablo

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 03:43 PM

Drivetrain test results: I nodded off, so I'm not real sure what happened :laugh2:

Seriously, the JK Hawk 25 motor seems to have really strong magnets.

As a motor head, I have to wonder why an anemic motor needs this much cog :unknw:

 

Anyway, here is my Driftin' Fifties proxy car, minus body.

It was a challenge and I had fun building it :dance3:

 

IMG_6817.JPG

 

IMG_6822.JPG


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Paul Wolcott




#52 Jairus

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 04:08 PM

Looks GREAT and really loving the dyed gear!  :heart:


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#53 Pablo

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 04:20 PM

Thanks, yup, I graduated the JW School of Crown Gear Dyeing years ago :dance3:

Up next: body pinning. Possibly the biggest challenge for me :yes3:


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#54 Jairus

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 04:40 PM

Preaching to the choir there Paul.

Nobody enjoys that burden.


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#55 Ecurie Martini

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:38 PM

Thanks, yup, I graduated the JW School of Crown Gear Dyeing years ago :dance3:

Up next: body pinning. Possibly the biggest challenge for me :yes3:

 I've only built a couple of clear body cars and only one with pin tubes.  I spent some time pondering this problem.  The body, a 1/32 Chrysler 300, was nearly typical 1/24 size.  My solution - built the chassis, trimmed the body and spotted and drilled the pin holes before painting.

 

EM


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#56 MSwiss

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:09 AM

Thanks, yup, I graduated the JW School of Crown Gear Dyeing years ago :dance3:
Up next: body pinning. Possibly the biggest challenge for me :yes3:

These would solve your body pinning issues.

http://slotblog.net/...pinning-blocks/

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#57 Pablo

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 06:31 AM

What I meant was, the body isn't tall enough to reach all the way to the bottom of the chassis without the wheels contacting the wheel wells.


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#58 Samiam

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:57 AM

Try narrowing the track. 

 

Just checked pic of roller. No can do.

 

OK...install a set of smaller tires to ease positioning and trimming?


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#59 mike1972chev

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:33 AM

"What I meant was, the body isn't tall enough to reach all the way to the bottom of the chassis without the wheels contacting the wheelwells."

 

Mr. PABLO is this a result of setting the chassis so low away from the axles? Meaning if the chassis pan was raised CLOSER to where the front and rear axle center lines were,the body wheel wells would line up better with the tires?

 
 
Just trying to learn a few things here.   ;)

Michael J. Boruff


#60 MSwiss

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:52 AM

Install some brass squares or rectangles, adjacent to the existing pin tubes, and solder some new pin tubes on top of them.

Obviously, the body will sit high, and you will be able to see the chassis from the side.

Mike Swiss
 
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#61 Ecurie Martini

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:57 AM

OK - I see what you mean.  The problem, assuming that the body is close to scale, is that, from photographs, the lower edge of the body falls on a line that is midway between the wheel centers and the ground or, for 1" tires, ~ 1/4"  Can you add a plastic "skirt" to the lower edge of the body, paint it flat black and pin through that?
 
EM
Alan Schwartz

#62 Pablo

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:59 AM

Smaller wheels isn't an option, due to the rules.

The axle locations are dictated by the wheel sizes, not something that is adjustable.

 

Sure, I can make pin tubes as high as I want, but that won't change the fact the skirts are gonna have to be above the bottom of the pans.

Look at Jairus' car, the way his body is mounted. Mine is going to similar but not sure if I'm going to do it that way.

 

The rules maker understands all this and has given us permission to be creative if necessary.

Right now my skirts are cut below the cut line and it still won't reach the bottoms of the pans.

 

Alan's suggestion is one option, another is Jairus's method of using an exhaust.


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#63 Jairus

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:04 AM

These vintage bodies are molded pretty close to the real thing.
So... take a look at the actual cars and you can SEE the chassis below the body work.

Angle your pin tubes is the simplest answer.
Just because the chassis shows is not a deal breaker in my book. (Which is why I kept my chassis sort of narrow.)  :wink3:


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#64 MSwiss

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:33 AM

If you add skirts, I would still pin through the body.

Since the car is going to be raced, you don't know how it's going to be marshaled, and if it gets ham-fisted, you don't know if the skirts are going to start peeling away from the body.(edit-especially with having to double stick the skirts to a painted body)

Mike Swiss
 
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#65 Half Fast

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:08 AM

My $.02

 

1- Is there another taller body that will work?

 

2- Move the pans to the top of the hinges (will probably hurt handling though)

 

Cheers


Bill Botjer

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#66 Ecurie Martini

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:30 AM

If you add skirts, I would still pin through the body.

If the car is going to be raced, you don't know how it's going to be marshaled, and if it gets ham-fisted, you don't know if the skirts are going to start peeling away from the body.

 

Good point and even if you extended the skirt slightly above the bottom of the body and added a fillet of epoxy, the ultimate strength of the joint would, since it appears that the body is painted on the inside, depend on the adhesion of the paint.  How thick is the body?

 

EM


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#67 Ecurie Martini

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:37 AM

Another thought - redo the pan stops so the pans are angled up.  I think the impact on the CG would be modest and the visibility of the pans would be significantly reduced.

 

EM


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#68 mike1972chev

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:00 PM

Are you trying to maintain a certain,specific spacing between the bottom of the chassis and the track surface? 


Michael J. Boruff


#69 Pablo

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:58 PM

Clearance rules are 15/50 thou, same as retro.

 

Stand by, I'll be tackling the challenge head on this afternoon.


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#70 Pablo

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 03:18 PM

Thanks to everybody, I appreciate all the suggestions :friends:

I have weighed all my options and decided on a solution - simple and smart, basically Swiss' post #61.

 

First step is disassembly of most of the parts, and installing a fresh new 409 cutting wheel on my Dremel.

Minor surgery and a little soldering is all that's needed. Sounds easy but it may take me a couple days :laugh2:

 

 


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#71 Pablo

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 02:13 PM

The only parts I really didn't want to remove were the fronts so I prepped them for surgery.

It may look funny but I do not want acid or brass dust on them :)

 

IMG_6827.JPG

 

 


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#72 Pablo

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 03:34 PM

I knew it was going to be ugly, but I think the body will sit right where I want it now.

About 1/16" of the ends of the hinge rods was removed, and four new pin tubes sit atop the originals

 

IMG_6834.JPG


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#73 Pablo

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 05:37 PM

I hoped raising the body 1/16" would solve the problem, and I was wrong.

The wheels rub the body as soon as the body flexes even the slightest amount.

The car was build exactly to specs as per the rules, and the body was cut exactly on the cut line.

 

IMG_6838.JPG

 

My opinion is, 1" OD wheels are way too big. Hopefully others will have better results than I did.

 


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#74 Pablo

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 03:54 PM

Track test #1 results:

 

-handling is great, she drifts real nice, scoots along OK, is very forgiving and a joy to drive

-zero problems, other than the tops of the tires touch the body under cornering

 

I don't agree with the mandated wheel size of 1" min. OD and my opinion is it would be a fun build with 7/8" min. OD wheels.

I didn't enjoy having to butcher my pans and butcher the body to somehow make it work, and it still rubs.

 

That's just my experience and my opinion. I'm locking the thread, not in anger, just want to see what others come up with.

Hopefully the problem will be resolved ........... :)


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#75 Pablo

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:51 PM

Painted my second Maserati 450S body, since my first one was basically ruined by me assuming the bottom of the body should be level with the bottom of the chassis.

Thank goodness Steve-a-Roonie Kempson sent me two beautiful John Dilworth bodies :dance3:  So I'm still in the game.

 

IMG_6882.JPG

 

This time, I'm leaving the extra material below the cut line on the sides long and untrimmed.

The car needs that, in addition to clever pan tricks, to make it all work :)

 

IMG_6884.JPG


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#76 Jairus

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:58 PM

There you go!  Innovation is the mother of invention. :)


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#77 munter

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 02:41 PM

Was thinking before the thread got frozen is that there were exhaust pipes along the sides, no?

 

These could disguise some of the chassis pan that was hanging low.


John Warren
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#78 Pablo

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 04:33 PM

Was thinking before the thread got frozen is that there were exhaust pipes along the sides, no?

 

These could disguise some of the chassis pan that was hanging low.

No. My car never had exhaust pipes. Maybe you are thinking of Jairus' car.

I applaud him for doing it the way he did, and obviously it worked well.

 

Those of you who have suggestions, I wish you would just build your own cars and become participants.

This is going to be a really fun proxy and the small issue I had is just a minor bump in the road :dance3:


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#79 Pablo

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 05:18 PM

Thanks to all who gave possible solutions to a strange body mounting challenge.

I completely disassembled the chassis in preparation for major surgery.

Pans were sliced completely off and the rear .047 brass rod upstops were simply bent up out of the way

 

IMG_6895.JPG


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#80 munter

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 03:18 AM

No. My car never had exhaust pipes

 

I was aware of that but thought all the 1/1 cars did have side pipes.

 

Those of you who have suggestions, I wish you would just build your own cars and become participants.

 

Sounds like my input irritated you.

 

 


John Warren
Slot cars are my preferred reality


#81 Pablo

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 08:57 AM

I'm sorry if you read it that way and I apologize.

 

The 1/1 cars did have exhausts but the body skirts still extended at least to the bottoms of them.

No sense comparing these to 1/1 cars in that respect because the 1/1 cars didn't use wheels that were too big.

If you could hold the car in your hands, you'd understand a lot better than I can explain it.

 

I'll be working on my new pan assemblies later today.......


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#82 Ecurie Martini

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 09:40 AM


No sense comparing these to 1/1 cars in that respect because the 1/1 cars didn't use wheels that were too big.

 

The 450s mounted 6:00 X 16 tires at the front, 7:00 X 16 at the rear.  At that time, the section ratio (height to width) was typically 100 and, depending on the manufacturer, the overall diameter would have been ~ 26" F and 30" R.  In 1/24 scale 1.08 " and 1.25

 

EM


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#83 dc-65x

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 10:12 AM

Hi Pablo,

 

I don't mean to butt in as I'm not planning on building a car to meet these particular rules.

 

I just wanted to point out the problem is simply that the early real cars with their larger tires (1/24 scale 1"+) did not have their bodies an 1 1/2" (1/24 scale 1/16") off the ground in real life.

 

As you found out, when a modern slot car chassis is built to the maximum allowable width, lowest possible track clearance and a semi scale1" tire diameter............the body often won't sit low enough and likely won't be wide enough to cover the chassis with out some sort of extension on the body sides.

 

This is the nature of the beast even with the smaller tires on this little Lotus 11:

 

Lotus 11 003.JPG

 

When I use these bodies in a more traditional vintage style chassis I simply raise the body mounts up. I'm not dealing with a modern "low slung" jail door chassis or with floating pans hanging below and possibly out the sides of the body.


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#84 Pablo

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 01:28 PM

Understood. The scale math makes sense. But I didn't mean "too big" with reference to scale.

I meant "too big" as in, the body skirts aren't long enough to reach the bottom of the chassis.

No matter how high the mounts are.

 

The basis of my problem is, I'm not a "scale guy", I'm a mechanic and a racer.

So I don't look at things in regards to it. That's my problem and I admit it :)


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#85 munter

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 01:48 PM

Scratchbuilding is, for me, solving a series of problems one after the other with hopefully a happy outcome.

 

I reckon you will solve the problem just fine.


John Warren
Slot cars are my preferred reality


#86 dc-65x

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 02:50 PM

Here's one way to skin this cat..........oooops! Sorry guys, It's just a figure of speech. :shok:

 

DSCN1268 - Copy.jpg

 

I've added 1/4" brass strips to support the sides of the body and attach elevated pin tube to:

 

Dynamic-GE (50).JPG

 

I think it looks kind of mechanical and cool exposed a bit below the body sides....but that's just me.  :crazy:


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#87 Pablo

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 03:02 PM

Cats n dogs, proxy racing against each other :laugh2:

 

Rules are no brass sheet. C'mon Capt. Rick, build a car and enter, you have lots of time.


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#88 dc-65x

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 03:10 PM

 

Rules say no brass sheet.

 

You've got to be kidding.................no, I'm sure you're not.  OK, I give up. Sorry I didn't mean to interfere and good luck with your project.


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#89 Jairus

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 05:02 PM

Yeah, that's a rule.  Else I would have done that exact thing.
Only brass sheet is the motor bracket and one for the guide plate.
All else has to be brass rod or tube with no more than two soldered together full length.
Which is why Paul only soldered the ends of his pans.


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#90 Pablo

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 08:25 PM

Thanks Jairus. :)

I removed the inner and outer rods from both pans, then repositioned them.

New hinge rods, new down stops, and new little platforms to raise the pin tubes

 

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There are a million ways to do it and this is just my way.


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Paul Wolcott

#91 Pablo

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 04:08 PM

Wheels have plenty of room to spin now. Ready for track test #2 this Saturday

 

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Paul Wolcott

#92 Pablo

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 02:53 PM

Track test tomorrow has been cancelled due to track issues.

I broke in a backup/spare motor, tinned the terminals, and installed a spec 8T pinion.

She's a real trench digger, just like the other one - pulls .2 amps at 3 volts :lazy: :laugh2:

 

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Paul Wolcott

#93 Jairus

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 07:36 PM

Waiting for someone to drive the front wheels with that long shaft....  :on_the_quiet2:


Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

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Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#94 Pablo

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 08:09 PM

Track test #2 today was on a full sized commercial track. I didn't expect any problems -

I've found any car that handles well and negotiates the tight corners of The Nightmare will work fine on a bigger track.

Sure enough, she handled fine. Drifts real sweet, runs smooth, no bad habits.

 

I'm calling it done and will be mailing it off to the UK soon.

If they award points for early arrivals, maybe I'll win a cookie :laugh2:


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Paul Wolcott

#95 Pablo

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 08:46 PM

Steve-a Roonie says somebody already sent a car in, so no cookie for me :laugh2:

I boxed up my Maserati with a spare body, wheels n spacers, pins, braid, and a backup motor with pinion installed.

En-route to United Kingdom tomorrow :dance3:

 

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