3573 replies to this topic

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Hi John,
I would stay with a #28 wire on the Wildcat motor unless you have some better mags. Just a thought as I remember #26 had ... no brakes and little torque and runs hot. You could run more turns on the 26 and it may run better then??? If you have some good mags then go for it!

[HarV Wallbanger III]

In post #222 I said "It is also true that switching speed increases"

Meaning it switches faster as the comm gets smaller.

Here is some pics of the arm Dan Green broke his own world record with in 1986 using the first set of my Front Line Pro Techs I-15 magnets I came out with in my setup. You can see the arm was ran many times (Note tag almost gone) and is very small @ .1775" dia. with a little plastic showing on the comm tip.

Note the name, it was from the first batch of arms Stu Koford sent me timed @ 35/ 38 deg. This arm is as fast as it ever was and I will someday put it back into the setup it was in.

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[havlicek]

I hear ya Harvey. I have a nice pair of Mura Red Dots in mind for that one and will probably get a Tradeship endbell. In any case, I'll stick with a 28 wind for the Wildcat. Nice looking arm there too!

-john

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Hey John,
After looking for more stuff for your care pak I found some arms I wound when I was like 13-14 back about 66-67! I'm going to clean them and post but they were from the day when we thought more epoxy was better! Boy talk about smoke! if ya burnt down one of those it would fill the track! Man are those heavy looking. after our track closed I did not do much winding so I never got great at it like your doing but its cool seeing these again.

I was trying to find some of my old HO drag arms (mid 70's) to post because I used #29 on the old G+ arm and it looked like it was wound with coat hanger! They would only last 1-2 passes till the comm exploded or burnt through!

I still have not found them but wow some of the stuff I found brings back those years of testing rewinds on the old mans T-Bird battery!

I have some other stuff to post also to see if Dokk can tell me anything about it.

[havlicek]

Hi Harvey,

After looking for more stuff for your care pak I found some arms I wound when I was like 13-14 back about 66-67! I'm going to clean them and post but they were from the day when we thought more epoxy was better!

I did the same thing back then and all the arms from the other guys in my little group were the same way. We put enough epoxy on them so that they were all rounded and everything looked like it was embedded under glass The thing is, the epoxy all basically was probably just sitting on the top of the winds. I also used everything from very thin monofiliment fishing line to thread to dental floss to tie them up. When we tied them, we tied the com but also tied the poles so it looked like an "X" when you looked at the winds. Four or five gallons of epoxy later and you still had an arm that would sometimes go "nuclear"

I still have not found them but wow some of the stuff I found brings back those years of testing rewinds on the old mans T-Bird battery!

10-4 on that too! I used to do the same thing until I built me a power supply using a design and parts from the local Radio Shack. I still had the thing until I recently got one of Tony's great iPower supplies.

Back on the 517, it's cool how the can seems to be formed from a single piece with no welds...and the polished chrome thing doesn't hurt either. Sturdy, seemingly very straight and pretty to boot!

-john

[HarV Wallbanger III]

These were a stamping called a "deep draw" stamping. Its really better in some respects for a complete can. Look at the Falcon and TSR cans and you see the same type mfg.

Until USRA made legal the strap can I was going to make a can somewhat like this for I-15 and up to 20 motors. I got to meet the die maker for the original round can Mabuchi and heard his story behind the can he did for them. Not sure what the real name or # of the can but its the one that had an in the can brush setup. I think it came out about 1962-3??

The cost of this type of stamping is much more in die cost then a flat and folded stampings we see on most American motors.

Still looking John.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

In the day I experimented with epoxy; from minimum to solid glas! I came to the conclusion that lots of epoxy was just holding the heat in and cooking it faster. Minimal, more surface area, more dissipation.

As I said, I am pretty sure I never ran hotter than a 30 on the russkits, 29s on the slightly later "wildcat" style. In general, though I was running milder winds than most reflecting my lack of driving talent.

Fate

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Its funny Rocky, at the time we did not think of "flywheel weight" as these did have more weight to spin . Plus back then you heard about people doing things and you did not have the internet for the great photos and info so it was try this and that and learn.

I'll post some of these "big Muthas" just to get a laugh!

Also I never was happy with a #28 on the Mabuchi mags and #26 would spin for the MOON but did not have any torque or brakes at all. Most I did was 52-63 turns of #29 wire and 60-65T of 30 and was happy with those. I can't remember what we did "Big Blocks" with as got in at the last of those and just when the small blocks took over. I raced many big blocks at my home track till it closed.

We never knew how good it would become as far as over-the-counter arms in the future!

[havlicek]

The arm for the 517 is all done. Another #28 awg, but a little spicier. Still on the mild side as per the owner's request and only draws about 1 1/2 amps, but spins up really nicely.



Just a couple of bits to make for the endbell and it will be all done.

-john

[Dooner]

Nice job John. How did you get the comm so nice and shiny?....And did you use a diamond bit?

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Just a thought John, have you seen the cheap DIY powder coating products on the market today? Try Eastwood the car restore people and there are others. It would be great to do custom blanks, skewed, short stack and long stack combos and powder coat them. You could get what ever color you want and it would be a mark of your arms.

[havlicek]

Just a thought John, have you seen the cheap DIY powder coating products on the market today? Try Eastwood the car restore people and there are others. It would be great to do custom blanks, skewed, short stack and long stack combos and powder coat them. You could get what ever color you want and it would be a mark of your arms.

Hi Barney,

Yeah I did look at them and "cheap" is a relative term in this economy Besides, I don't really have a need for it. Anyway, the 517 is dun-dee-dun-done and off it goes mañana. I had to make some wire tabs because there was nothing left on the endbell hardware to attach leads to (they were soldered to the brush hoods before) and I did some spring post protectors. The chrome antenna I made them from goes well with the can



-john

[Don Weaver]

Anyway, the 517 is dun-dee-dun-done and off it goes mañana. I had to make some wire tabs because there was nothing left on the endbell hardware to attach leads to (they were soldered to the brush hoods before) and I did some spring post protectors. The chrome antenna I made them from goes well with the can
-john

Looks great, John....can't wait for it to be in my yet to be built jail-door chassis. BTW, what wind did you use? Thanks a lot, I'm sure it will draw a lot of interest at the track.

Don Weaver

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Looks good John.
Here is some pics of old "glass filled" rewinds.. the 26D was the most filled. The 16D has less epoxy and note the tie wrap on comm w/ early cap job. The 36D Big Block has very little as I learned to heat up the arm in Moms oven and use a toothpick to let it melt in then run it in the drill motor with some heat from a propane torch to keep it soft and "fling" off excess!

I think the last arm on right is a Tradeship?? Its blown up but all the others still run. How bout it Dokk what is the arm with the offset balance holes on right. I also found a old French Motor.

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[havlicek]

Looks great, John....can't wait for it to be in my yet to be built jail-door chassis. BTW, what wind did you use? Thanks a lot, I'm sure it will draw a lot of interest at the track.

Don Weaver

Hi Don,

Glad you like it. The wind is 40T/#28 with a little bit of advance. Draws 1 1/2 amps or less (more on full accel. of course) and it runs cool. Plenty of power for a lightweight chassis like a jaildoor. Please note that I wound it to run counterclockwise as per the marking on the endbell so you need to install the crown gear on the left side when looking at the car from the rear. Enjoy!

-john

[havlicek]

Boy Barney...THAT"S A LOT OF EPOXY!, even by the old standards. Looks like one of those mosquitos fossilized in amber. Cool!

-john

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Ya if ya look at the 26D wire you can almost see dents from using a popsicle stick on them to make room for the rest of the polls! I can't remember the turns on it but one of the tracks local hot shoes showed me how to wind and epoxy it. Like I said if one blew it would fill the track! We had 3 tracks in there so it was a big building ! Rocky will get a kick out of this one! .

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

In the day, school, parents, girls, old cars was the real world. Part of the fun was daydreaming about "ya know, if I try THIS....".

I still have a few of those in the box. Tend to packrat. They are DEAD, but I didn't toss much. I am hoping to have a couple jail door F1s running tomarrow with period motors. Meeting an old friend from the 60s at a local very small track.

By modern standards, my survivors are not Steube legal. Mostly, I used pianowire main rails, and having been influenced by Pete Haganbach and the midwest guys, always used thick brass sheet "drop arms" that, of course, didn't drop. The midwest guys like Pete and Dobson had convinced me about plate and pan chassis back in 63, and going "light" I still couldn't talk myself into drop arms. Did them for customers.

But I have motors and parts that survived.

When I arrived in Salt Lake the first time in '65, everyone was still running Kemtrons and Pittmans on road courses. And I had this rewould 36d and ran rampant for several months! But in 66 it was pittcans and 26ds then 16ds and hemis within a short time. Meaning that some of my 28s for the 36ds are in the box and never used! I am thinking another restoration.

Fate

[havlicek]

Meaning that some of my 28s for the 36ds are in the box and never used! I am thinking another restoration.

Fate

Do them up Rocky!

I got started on my pet "Wildcat" project and so far so good. I stripped the can, ground off the magnet tabs and stops in preparation for nice new coat of screaming yellow :-) First, that cage bearing had to go... so I spent an embarrassing amount of time removing it, enlarging the hole JUST large enough to center a nice ball bearing, tinning the inside of the hole only (!), and silver-soldering-in the bearing. I don't know about you guys, but I tend to hold my breath when I'm doing stuff where I need to be accurate. I did a lot of that already on this one, but it came out really nicely so far. Also, the arm blank that was given (!) to me with the can/setup was maybe a couple of thousandths oversize for the bearing so I polished the shaft until it fit snugly. I have a large hard felt wheel on my grinder and I charged it with chromium polishing compound, chucked the arm in the Dremel and spun both the arm and the polishing wheel as I played them against each other trying it every so often for fit. Another side benefit should be that when balancing the arm, I'll have very smooth shaft ends to rest on the razor blades. This one is going to get a Tradeship endbell, proper magnets, and of course a zippier wind to go with all this. The Wildcat lives!



-john

[MrWeiler]

I did a double 32 for 1 track I raced on that had LOUSY power. It ran away & hid from a full track of racers but qualified lousy. Usually had to work my way up. It never ran hot. I ran it so much there I wore the comm out. Never did another. Tha track finnaly went to 2 deep cycle batteries used in golf carts. Then came a few 27 & 28 guage on a Mura .007 lamanition .460 stack with 35 deg. timing.They did good as long as I had the Mura brushes with the pig tail (shunt cast in). I had a unimat 3 jaw lathe to cut comms with....wish they had diamond tip tools back then BUT....I made a jig to mount a Dremel with a FINE stone to grind the stacks. Worm clamps can do wonderfull things....Found a speed control at Grangers to slow the Dremil down. Worked wonders.........

MAN..you opened some old doors. (memories)

61 & called a rookie,
PHIL

I two liked double winds on low power tracks. Wide powerband and nice top end. I also noticed that they were not as quick in qual when there were more amps available but in traffic WOW.

[havlicek]

While I'm waiting for the endbell to get here to set the arm length, I'm considering a couple of different winds for this motor and one is a 28dbl just for the retro appeal. If I go that hot, I think I'll put a Kirkwood on this thing. I might even push the shaft and make this thing can drive with the bearing installed and all. After all that's done, I gotta figure out what the heck to do with the motor I gotta say that this one is "special" though. I have another Wildcat can that's in pretty sorry shape and am already thinking about that one

-john

PS...I gotta say that the can, arm, endbell and othr bits for the Wildcat were GIVEN to me with no strings by a member here just because I mentioned how much I loved this motor as a kid. Quite a group here!

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Hey John will the shaft be long enough to run can drive? It looks short??? Looking good.

Still digging....

[havlicek]

Hey John will the shaft be long enough to run can drive? It looks short??? Looking good.

Still digging....

Hey Barney,

I rigged a way to push the shaft using a carpenter's screw clamp that I drilled-through...works great. All I have to do is push the shaft a bit so there's just a little poking out the endbell bearing and it'll be perfect. Not very high-tech, but I gotta use the tools at hand

-john

[TSR]

I think the last arm on right is a Tradeship?? Its blown up but all the others still run. How bout it Dokk what is the arm with the offset balance holes on right.

Sorry Barn, did not read the thread until now. Not sure what it is but I think that it is a French Motor Co. arm. In other words, Mura...

[HarV Wallbanger III]

No prob man! But the French motor has a Mura style balance drill in it. I know back then a company would use their own drill style and this arm does not have "Mura" style holes. They are flat bottom drilled.??????????? It's blown but I thought Tradeship used this style of balance holes???

Sorry Barn, did not read the thread until now. Not sure what it is but I think that it is a French Motor Co. arm. In other words, Mura...