3573 replies to this topic

[Don Weaver]

137,502 views as of 1:27PM, January 16, 2012 should tell you there's a lot of interest in what you do! I for one throughly enjoy seeing the rewinds, restorations and modern (F7, Euro's, etc.) work that you do. Please don't quit........

Don Weaver

[Bill from NH]

John, I think you should be given your own sub-forum. Then you could put this thread, your others, & any future ones you may develop into it.

[havlicek]

Hi guys and thanks for the ideas/comments. I really have nothing left to add to this thing. I figure I'll post the occasional build from time to time...but I feel like I'm just repeating myself here...feel like I'm just repeating myself here...feel like... What I'm really looking forward to is doing more work for Bill and Lou when they get going again!

-john

[Pablo]

I agree with you, John. But just don't leave us EVER

[Alchemist]

What Paul said!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure I'm not the only one "addicted" to this thread and I need my fix!! So please John, keep posting whatever you feel like posting - just keep posting pix please?!?!?!?!

For me John - every motor you rewind is different from the previous one, even if you did something similar previously. It's always exciting for me to see your work!!


Just curious, what is the highest AMP draw registered from your motor rewinds please?

Thank you.

Ernie

[havlicek]

Hi Ernie,

There's really no way to know what the amp draw of a motor is without really accurate equipment. I've had motors "seem" to draw over 10 amps, and many motors probably more but that will shut down a power supply. Motors will draw the most current for a very short time which is usually much faster than most ammeters can register. I've seen it said that some motors will draw stupid-high current for a split second under acceleration and with a load (motors will draw more and more current until they stall under loading), and I believe it!

-john

[havlicek]

...more on this. It occurred to me that you might have been asking about "average" or continuous amp draw Ernie. If that's the case, I don 't think I've ever done a motor that drew more than 5...maybe 6 amps when running continuously, at least not a motor that I hoped would last. I've done some motors where the arm is like 15 turns of #23 that draw a LOT of current. A 15/23 will pop the circuit protection on many home power supplies. I have a triple #28 (!) wind c-motor arm here I did as an experiment that draws a lot less than that.

-john

[NSwanberg]

Keep em coming. I jumped in on your thread late and had to read like 500 posts to get caught up. What I like most is the speculative theory on how these little suckers actually work. Your kitchen table techniques are fascinating. I can understand how much work it has been for you but believe me it has been interesting and appreciated. At this point I think it would be understood if you cut back some. How many people are subscribed to your thread?

[Alchemist]

Thank you for answering my inquiry about motor amp draw John!

If I may ask another question please. If I remember correctly, something was said in this thread, about the use of lead wire gauge and how that could affect/control the voltage/amp draw. That by using smaller gauge wire would prevent higher AMP draw. What is your and other's observation of this theory please?

Gentlemen,

What is your lead wire gauge preference when building a car and why please?

John,

I've got some #20 AWG that I want to use on your motor rewinds you've done for me. Would this be acceptable or do you recommend a heavier gauge like #18awg please?

Thank you.

Ernie

[havlicek]

If I may ask another question please. If I remember correctly, something was said in this thread, about the use of lead wire gauge and how that could affect/control the voltage/amp draw. That by using smaller gauge wire would prevent higher AMP draw. What is your and other's observation of this theory please?

Well, that sounds within the realm of possibility (I remember that also, but not who said it), but I can't say. Bigger wire can carry more current, when you feed too much current through a wire (according to it's gauge), the resistance starts to warm-up the wire. So, while a smaller gauge wire can carry less current, it might also get warm if it's asked to do too much.

However, we're talking about only 12v, so it would never be enough to roast the wire. On the really small gauge end of the spectrum. I think most people who have messed with faster motors have seen a motor draw so much current that it will melt a motor spring instantly. That right there is proof of the concept , but it would take a LOT to melt even skinny lead wire. With the really flexible and super-fine stranded wire available today, I doubt you'd have a motor starved for current with pretty much any lead wire. Still, using skinny lead wire to "choke" a motor sounds like the least elegant way to have at it. Just use a cooler arm.

I've got some #20 AWG that I want to use on your motor rewinds you've done for me. Would this be acceptable or do you recommend a heavier gauge like #18awg please?

20 gauge is fine, Ernie. The motor may still need spring insulation and shunts, but the lead wire will be no problem. With the old vintage leads, it can be a good idea to double them up for the stouter arms.

-john

[Alchemist]

Thanks again for your input, John! It's appreciated!

Ernie

[janj86]

is there a source to purchase a hand rewind tool???

[Pablo]

"Rick" on Slotblog is the man to ask (Richard Bennardo, R-Geo).

[Dan Miller]

John,

Over time I have come to appreciate your work and how much your skills have improved. Some of your projects bring back old memories of motor building, rewinding, and modifying motors, from out of the past. You have a way of making these things seem current somehow.

It is rather commendable that you choose to do all the work and then share your experience. Understandable is the fact that it is indeed, a lot of work. It must seem like the same old thing, over and over, as you have suggested.

Back off on your sharing efforts but don't stop completely. Please go on posting your most interesting projects, from time to time. I am always curious as to what you will be up to next.

If you do become more involved with the Bill Bugenis and Lou Pirro effort, you may find your time is absorbed in following through on what they are trying to accomplish. This may put your hobby winding, using older reclaimed materials, on the back burner. It will also be a decided step up for you. You will then be able to put your workmanship into the hands of some serious racers who compete on the highest levels of slot racing. You get to see your work in real action, at major events and every now and then, your stuff wins one. That is the major force that keeps me going.

Dan Miller

[endbelldrive]

Hi Dan,
Welcome to Slotblog. I know you're busy but don't make yourself a stranger!

[havlicek]

Hi Dan,

I'm honored that anyone (especially guys who have already been there) has even paid attention to my little trip back to my childhood here. It somehow took on a life all it's own over time, and getting a little better never seemed to be enough. While the eurosports are on the bleeding edge, I still love the old stuff as well (I've got a pile on my bench right now) and whether Mabuchis, Muras, Champions or the more modern stuff...it's all good to me. Workling with Bill and Lou has been totally new as I never was involved with rewinding motors that were raced as a kid. Maybe that's why that part has been especially enjoyable ...those guys are driven to do good work and that stuff is inspiring. Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. I will post some stuff up from time to time.

If you do become more involved with the Bill Bugenis and Lou Pirro effort, you may find your time is absorbed in following through on what they are trying to accomplish. This may put your hobby winding, using older reclaimed materials, on the back burner. It will also be a decided step up for you. You will then be able to put your workmanship into the hands of some serious racers who compete on the highest levels of slot racing. You get to see your work in real action, at major events and every now and then, your stuff wins one. That is the major force that keeps me going.

I completely understand the sentiment here Dan. The few times that Bill and whoever else ran some of the arms and they did well, I got pretty stoked. I was never a "racer", even when I was a kid. I think I entered maybe a handful of races TOTAL and don't recall ever doing well at that Getting to have people who actually know how to drive run these things is an extra hoot.

-john

[Alchemist]

Dear John - (what a cliche - LOL!)

I know it's been some time since the last motor you rewound for me. I have not been sitting on my behind just merely drooling over all of the wonderful and different motors I now have - though I will admit to doing so - haha! I do use a "Bib" so there's no chance of corrosion!!

I have been working on my phenolic prototype chassis for quite a while and have now, I believe, come to the final version to place your motors in. Though I understand that I will constantly be improving upon even though I say it's the "final" version - for now. I'm excited to finally place your motors in something I believe is unique and different (just like the motors you build!), something I feel was worthy of your craftsmanship.

I finally decided upon the phenolic grade of G10-FR4 sheet and I've made a template which I "carve" out the the basic design.

I had a short discussion with an engineer slot buddy who made the comment that G10 would be too heavy to use. As a gauge, I explained to him that I weighed a G12 perimeter chassis and it weighed in at 19.5 grams. I cut a 3-1/4" x 5" plate from the phenolic and weighed it. It tipped the scale at 33.6 grams. In comparison, my JK 21 Stainless Steel chassis, bare (no bushings, pin tubing etc.,) weighed in at 55.4 grams while my T-flex chassis, bare, weighed in at 57.2 grams. So, I didn't feel the G10 would be too heavy!

After machining (actually whittling) the G10 plate to my design, the final trimmed chassis, bare, weighed in at 16.0 grams. I felt it was a good starting point. To finish up quickly here, I ran the prototype chassis with a Falcon 7 motor, threw on a a set of gears that I found which I believe was 12/37, a used set of tires and went out to test its handling ability on the King Track. I didn't have proper body mounts, guide tongue etc., and just wanted to see if it would make it around the track. First pass was a high 8 second lap. But at least it made it around the track - hahaha!

I spent over an hour tweaking the chassis parts and borrowed some tire cleaner from a buddy, and with the technical help of another slot buddy of mine made my final lap time of 5.7. I was pleased to see the improvement! Total weight of the car with a 15 thousandth painted body tipped the scale at 80.3 grams.

John,

Please pardon the "subject drift" but I wanted to just let you know again, that I am really excited to have what I feel is an appropriate "scratchbuilt" chassis to put your awesome motors in! Thank you - thank you so much for your assistance and generosity of providing me with your motors. When it is finally complete I'll try to have someome take a photo of it and share it with you.

I hope you will continue to post your work on this thread because it is always an inspiration and I DO have on my "to-do" list, to start learning to rewind my own motors - just like the other members who contributed pix of their rewound motors.

Many thanks John!

Ernie

[Robert V.]

Hi guys i am going to restart my motor winding again and one of my friends gave me some HO scale t-jet arms to rewind you know the pancake type ones, the problem is what size wire did they use if i can find out i will increase the size just a little for a boost in performance should make an interesting project i have never tried anything like these before.

[Alchemist]

Belated Happy New Year Robert!

Good to hear from you. I'm looking forward to seeing your HO rewind - I'm thinking "strap" motor!!!! It's almost the same size as the wing car motors are they not?!

Ernie

[Robert V.]

Hi Ernie good to hear from you to, yep those new wing car motors are pretty small alright i will strip one down this week and i will post pics as i go for those who are interested.

[havlicek]

I got my Champion "potential next thingie motor" (I say potential because I'm only guessing it's legal...but I think it is???) all dun-dee-dun-dun and it's a honey. I settled on a #26 wind as I "think" it can live for the shorter race series. Arm is an old reclaimed .007" lam Mura stack (actually two partial stack I assembled into one...what a PITA!), com is by Bugenis, I pressed-in a new drill blank shaft and Bill did the balancing as well. Magnets are yellow-dots and I was able to shim another .005" per side besides the split-can shims which work so well. I added 36D heatsink/brush tubes that were soldered-in after trimming them down up top to clear the endbell bearing and avoid shorts, and trimming away a bit from the lower front to clear the springs' long leg. I also opened up the slots a little to clear the insulated springs' short end and wound the springs from .016" stainless steel wire (guitar strings). The motor whistles like the intro to the Andy Griffith show and draws about 2 amps, but I'm thinking that will calm down a bit more after break-in. With the Mura lams, Champion setup and Bugenis com, I call it my "Chamuris" Even though the still-far-off next proxy will allow up to Mura Green Cans, putting me at a slight disadvantage, I figure it's cool to be "different". I'll wait to see what others build (especially the evil Tony P) before I work on the chassis. I figure this all gives me PLENTY of time to source a bracket.



-john

[Kim Lander]

John , that motor is rightious, thank yu for continuing to feed my motor addiction, I still have so much enjoyment showing off your handy work when folks look at all my old stuff, keep up the good work, Kim

[havlicek]

Thanks Kim...the motor is a honey alright, and should provide plenty of thrills in such a light chassis. Now I either have to make a bracket or find one (or find one that can be reamed-out to fit the large can bushing).

-john

[Bill from NH]

John, you could try a 26D bracket. They might have more material on the front plate that could be hogged out without significantly weakening it.

[havlicek]

There's a good idea Bill. I figure I'm going to have to ream the heck out of something to make it work, so any way I go I'll have to brace it up plenty. Thanks

-john