221 replies to this topic

[Mark F]

Thanks Don. The longer one measures 9/16" and the shorter one 7/16". The short arm was in a labeled package from ProSlot as PS-2001 SpeedFX S16D Balanced Motor.


Now I want to know what Jeff and Carrie are running..... and which is legal.

Carrie and Jeff and Jim and I all have S16D Proslot SpeedFX PS2001 stock off the wall motors for this class. The longer stack shown would not be legal if I were measuring stacks.
Actually, because the sealed SpeedFX motors were backordered is the only reason I allowed unsealed motors in this class in the first place.

A lot of people here may disagree with me, but when you take one of these motors off the wall... break it in in Naptha and put lots of VooDoo drops on the arms PLUS gear it to the moon for RPM in the short straight, constantly spray motor spray to clean... you are going to throw a wind mainly due to metal fatigue.

This class was basically put together here at our track to sort out the confusions of what was legal or not. Take the motor off the wall, solder it in the chassis, and run it without all the modification tweaks from the tweakers here and there. Makes it sort of simple don't you think?

[Bill from NH]

Jairus, even with my poor eyesight, your nice photo of the two arms together clearly shows the short-stack one to be wound with larger wire. It's probably 60T of 28 ga, while the other is 70T of 30 ga. or the metric equivilant of those gauges. Now, would I try running one of the Proslot 16D arms against the S16D ones? Sure, I'd try it. Those arms are quite fast & you have nothing to loose. If the rules mandate you have to use a Chinese S16D arm, the Parma would be an alternate choice.

[Jairus]

Thanks Mark. I am done with the ProSlot stuff for NASCAR then. I like my Parma just the way it is..... AMERICAN MADE!

Best thing I can do now is just learn to drive better....
... and have fun doing it!

[Mark F]

Parma S16D motors are good, and they are in the options I listed for motors allowed. They hold up to gearing and RPM well. I've just found that you need to take some of the softness out of it by gearing it for more torque off the line.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

Mark, your rant works in both directions. Jairus can go to any model show in the country and be competitive.

A number of the guys on this forum used to "pay the rent" in the days where there were serious payouts that allowed "pros" to actually be professional slot racers. Those days, most of use had a procedure that involved walking into a unknown track, and within a short while having a faster car. In 1:1 races, think of some of the guys like P and Steube and others as having "national plates" with numbers under 10. Most of us have had the experience of not only taking the money but hearing "how did that happen when we all know THAT cannot work".

No one is being dismissive of your program. And most of us consider Jairus a friend. And most of us help each other as friends. And it might happen that someone outside your program might have a valued insight. It isn't an insult. It is what friends do for each other.

On other forums, you will note that all of us help and advise each other from all over the country.

Fate

[Mark F]

I think you got my "rant" ( term used loosely here ) all wrong, but ok.
I'm all for suggestive help from friends, and I am in no way locked into what I think works or don't work at all. Got a fresh idea? I'll try it. People that frequent our track know that pretty much to be the case. I'll buy the items on my own dime to check them out before I buy using the stores dime and putting them in stock.
What I was saying, though, was that I thought it quite funny some of the advice given. I'm sure there are racers out there that can come in and set their cars up in a short period of time. Its all about experience and a learning curve. But, I can almost guarantee you that they will have to make some minor and maybe some major changes to the set up on each track they run. I've seen people come to the track with a notebook listing all the tracks they have run since the beginning of time and their setup sheets. The 1 to 1 driver we have here has an encyclopedia for each and every track he races at. Each track is different.. that's all I am saying. And people that haven't run our particular track really don't know if what their advices given will actually work. They may even come in with their cars set up that way themselves, but they will need to go to the bench and change things here and there to suit the track.
If I can try my hand at a little humor on this board... what I thought was funny was..(getting my best Nascar accent to work) I run them thar Blue Kings Track and I have that there little tiny chassis called a Champion with this set up ( insert gear, tire, weights, front wheel size, motor, motor cheat suggestions, etc... ) and it works for me... so I suggest you try that there setup on your Hillclimb (end of accent and humor attempt ).
That's what I thought was funny.

[Hworth08]

Hey Mark,

A NASCAR accent would sound more like someone from California than the southeast with today's crop of drivers. There's almost as many drivers from the northwest as the southeast in today's Cup cars. Maybe why the original NASCAR fans have largely left.

Back to slots...when someone replies to Jairus it's with an idea more than advice. All slot tracks are about the same, they're just corners connected to straights. The amount of grip is altered by the usage and spray gluing. That's an item no one can offer help with other than if the track is always slick, it's best to just stop going there. Slot racing is not supposed to be ice racing.

Way too much is made about setup with slot cars. Anyone that has qualified a 1:1 car under a hot July sun and then starts a race at 8 pm knows about setup changes. Slot cars can be tuned with tires, guide, bodies and to some degree the motor but that's about it as far as big adjustments.

[Jairus]

Right Don... but the biggest adjustment is between the ears. I can set up a car that is for sure, but it is driving experience that I need most!

[Hworth08]

Jairus,

Sorry, I can't fix the between the ears stuff! But it's amazing how easy a really good flexi car drives.

I was lucky that John Martin started racing at our local track when I returned to commercial slot racing. I had been racing HO T-jets a couple years so I had already knocked off the driving rust. John, who is a 2 or 3 time National winner, spent quite a bit one-on-one time showing where I wasn't driving hard enough (T-jets are extremely hard to drive) and showed me a lot about Flexi cars. At most of the races I had enough time to get John to drive my car a few laps to see what he thought. That REALLY accelerated my knowledge and gained me a world of first class experience.

On the negative side, when John and a dozen or so of middle-TN's best racers came to our track, nearly all the local drivers quit. We didn't know much and were over a second slower with sealed flexi NASCARs but we had around 25 people per race. Only 2 or 3 of the locals contuined aganist the better racers that lead to the track closing a couple years later.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

Jairus, what I do when building for others is worry about THEM. There is no universal fast car in most cases. Lets talk about "feel" and what the car looks like when it comes off. Fast cars aren't designed for fast laps, but to make a given driver produce as many laps as possible in the race.

So, when you come off, most commonly, where does it happen, and what is the car doing when you realize you lost it?

Sometimes "bad driving" is more "car and driver missmatch".

Fate

[Pablo]

does my squid run ?

[Jairus]

No, forgot to take it. (I am sooo stupid.)
Also forgot to run Ron Kitmura's (Darkron9) car too and managed to actually remember to tote that one to the track! It was the thrown wire that messed me up on forgetting his car. I have no excuse for forgetting the "squid"... which will have to be renamed btw!
Jeremy and I should be making a practice trip soon for some wing car practice. By then the Arrow-dart will be painted and posted.

[Mark F]

I actually tried posting this earlier.. it apparently didn't go through correctly or something....but...

For whatever its worth to you Jairus...

I tested this one theory out this weekend on our track "On a Hill Climb with a flexi frame and NASCAR body I would use a regular, not a Super, 16D. Geared 14/37 with Piraha .765 tires on a non-glued track."
The results were that the motor got EXTREMELY HOT after a mere 10 laps. The best time I could get was in the high 6's around our 150' hill climb. My assumption is that the motor's plastic endbell wouldn't make 3 or 4 heats into the race without a meltdown geared at that ratio.
I'll stick with my setup that is getting the car around the track in the high 4's to low 5's range. Adjusting it a bit for the Japanese arms, a consistent 5.2 / 5.3

Also, to correct some mistaken hours posted earlier, its Closed on tuesday and wednesday. Noon to 5 on Thursday Sunday and Monday and Noon to 8 on Friday and Saturday. Winter Hours on the coast.
I'm going to try scheduling the next race for you earlier at say 4pm for practice and racing at 5:15 or so. That should make it a little more convenient for you on Sundays.

[Hworth08]

I tested this one theory out this weekend on our track "On a Hill Climb with a flexi frame and NASCAR body I would use a regular, not a Super, 16D. Geared 14/37 with Piraha .765 tires on a non-glued track."
The results were that the motor got EXTREMELY HOT after a mere 10 laps.

14/37 gears are the "standard" for the ProSlot regular 16D sealed motor with the Chinese arm. Hundreds of these motors have been used in the Kelly AMSRA races since the motor was released with very good results.

The "slow" motors will be re-geared to 15/39 or discarded. Mark, I would tend to believe there was something wrong with the motor you were trying.

Be sure to note that I speaking of the Chinese arms. American arms will need a lower ratio.

[Mark F]

Don... I'll try it again next weekend with a different motor.
Not questioning your expertise, but it does seem to be a really tall gear to put on the motor side. This is 64 pitch correct?
We've all had excellent results with a 10/37 or 10/38 gearing here on this track. 10/39 for chinese arms that may tend to throw a wind.
Higher than that the car tends to not ramp up to speed on the straights which is what it was doing this weekend testing that ratio out. You could almost hear the motor trying until about 3/4 down the straight.. then come alive... only to have to back off at the brake point of the corner.
I don't think it was the motor since after about 15 laps or so, I went and put the 10T gear back on and ran it again with results of what I was used to.

[Jairus]

I have found that these motors also get faster and faster as they are used. (long as it don't throw a wire of course) For some reason they "find a groove" and get quicker the more you use them.. until re-building is required. I don't want to attribute something spiritual or earthreal.... but it fits for me!

They like it when you talk to them too.... I'm just saying.

[Hworth08]

Hi Mark,

I don't how we can be that far apart on gearing? Just to be sure, I'm speaking of REGULAR, not Super, sealed ProSlot 16D motors using a Chinese arm. The tracks had 14.3 volts with a good supply of amps.

There are 3 or 4 people on this blog that are pretty regular in the AMSRA races, maybe they will chime in.

[Mark F]

Don... that's what I was using. A Regular Proslot 16D motor. I had one in shop ( we normally sell the Super16D ) chinese arm. I had to dig in my box to find a 14tooth gear since our biggest on the wall was a 13. I just don't sell anything bigger than an 11 here. But I had one of those gears on a Parma Rotor Motor I bought from someone over the past 5 years. I kept it because I couldn't believe anyone would use such a big gear. At any rate... the track is an Ogilvie, power source may be a Rivergate putting out a clean 13.6 Volts, but I'll have to check for exact numbers.
Only other thing I can think of is that I do put down a good amount of spray glue into the corners. Some here have insinuated that maybe we have an ice skating rink here to run on, which could be interpreted that I don't use anything on the track.

Not that it makes any difference.. but none of our race classes include the Standard 16D motor. I was just curious as to the gear ratio. All of our classes use the Proslot S16D with the exception of the Flexi wing class which I allow the Proslot Outlaw S16D American Arm motor.
Only other motors I sell are the Parma S16D and Parma Deathstar and an occasional Group 12 or 20. Although I will special order anything.

[W. J. Dougherty]

Mark,

What is the length of this track??

Thanks,

wjd

[Jairus]

Bill, Post #163 states that it is a 150' Hillclimb!

[Mark F]

Redoing the numbers... It's a Bulldog power supply at 13.4 volts 75 amps
It shows 150 ft. but I'm going to remeasure each lane for accuracy

[Pablo]

Whatever the voltage is or whatever track it is, no matter how you gear it, my micro Mini Cooper will walk off and leave your Flexis

[Mark F]

Maybe... But my flexi will catch you in the corners IF you come to our track to race

[Pablo]

It's a possibility in 2010.
I know a secret fishing spot near Crescent City.
Where is Depoe Bay ?

[Pablo]

Looks about 200 miles north of the border on the 101.
How is the fishing ?