221 replies to this topic

[Jairus]

Sunday 27th NASCAR race results.
Carrie 1st
Jeff 2nd
Jairus 3rd
Jeremy 4th.

Pretty much the same line up as usual but this race was markedly different in that it had a lot fewer accidents. Jimmy didn't race with us due to a job related injury where a power saw took off the tip of his thumb. He showed up prior to qualification with a huge cartoon sized gauze wrap over the right thumb. Jeremy however, joined us this time in his first NASCAR race ever! He did well considering he couldn't find any traction regardless of the zip-grip. I think we need to get him some JK treated rubber for the next race. This race was also different in that we ran IRRA approved for a change with no glue allowed. Unmodified stock flexi chassis only, with S16D power so the total laps were down some. Sort of like hobbling Carrie, but I was pleased to see her car fishtailing just as much as mine!

My car was perfect in practice... for a bit. I even out pulled Jeff and Carrie and seemed to get faster and faster the more laps I ran. But... suddenly it died! Not stopped... just s l o w e d d o w n. Got so slow that I could hold the trigger down and cruise the whole track with eyes closed. Checked the brushes, wires, peered down into the motor... nothing seemed wrong. I spun up nicely just wouldn't go fast. Swapped out the PS2001 for my tried and true Parma for the race grumbling all the way. Later, after removing the endbell, revealed a thrown wire at the com tab. Seems that the crimper pushes them down too hard and it just cannot take the revolutions and eventually throws a wire. Stupid cheap crap!
Going to order another one and have John tie the next one down good!
But... the Parma motor just seems to be getting faster and faster I have to admit. I shimmed up the magnets, epoxied them and then had Hershman zap the loving heck out of'm, a while back. That motor is nearly as good as the stock PS2001 so I think I'll just stay with it for now as I was only about 14 laps behind Carrie... I think.

Next race is open flexi Wing with the Outlaw arm. Fast, fun and I plan to drag Fergy to it in 4 weeks.
Respectfully submitted, Jairus

P.S. the fish and chips at the Sea Hag were fantastic! Wish you guys could play too.

[68Caddy]

Proud of you Jairus, I'm glad that you are hanging in there. You have to admit its different to race then build some sweet rides right, looking forward to see
ya at BPR.
We will be having fun when you show up.

Nesta

[Gus Kelley]

Hey Jairus! Good news report. I've dined at the hag a few times along with the chowder house and the Tidal Waves, I believe. It's always seafood for me. Clam chowder is always the measureing piece and frequently fish and chips. I've thru there six or eight times over the last ten years. Now I need to look for slot tracks. Any other known tracks? Gus

[munter]

This race was also different in that we ran IRRA approved for a change with no glue allowed.

No glue? why is that?

regards

[Michael Rigsby]

Later, after removing the endbell, revealed a thrown wire at the com tab. Seems that the crimper pushes them down too hard and it just cannot take the revolutions and eventually throws a wire. Stupid cheap crap!

Jairus,

This is exactly the problem that the ProSlot S16D seems to have, throwing windings before a full race is
even done. Some of the newer sealed S16D Pro Slot motors with the white sealing band do have the comm tied, but it doesn't help at all, they still fly apart. We use this same motor (sealed) in our GTP class in the state races, and the trick is to get one to last past 15 minutes of practice. If it will last that long in practice without throwing a wind, then it will last a race. Generally though, they will start to slow down, overheat badly then throw epoxy where they smoke, or just throw a wind and get it over with. I'm not a fan of this particular Pro Slot Chinese motor, and I'm sorry you had an issue with one in race. Let John epoxy a couple up for you and tie them up, hopefully they will last a little longer. Good Luck racing...

Michael Rigsby

[Jairus]

Any other known tracks? Gus

Gus, we are putting one together in the middle of the Willamette Valley. Still in the planning stages but all reports will be posted on this forum. Current location is about 3 miles off I-5 in the bedroom community of Jefferson. Hope to have three tracks if we can find a large enough facility.
Playing with names but... how about Hwy 99 Raceway?
Pics of the track at the link. This will be the second commercial track in Oregon.

No glue? why is that?

That is just the rule. As long as everyone abids then we are all in the same boat.

Let John epoxy a couple up for you and tie them up, hopefully they will last a little longer. Good Luck racing...

Michael, strangely enough I had that very thought in mind. It was a proven arm that had been through a number of races that I sent to John 4 weeks ago. He had it back in the mail in two days after doing his magic - but it never arrived here or I would have used that. Had to buy one off the wall last week - but should have stayed with the Parma S16D. It seems to be getting faster and faster each race even when I add lead to the pans
Maybe the "prodigal arm" will still turn up some day....

At any rate, I am going to send that broken wire arm to ProSlot with a carefully worded letter.

[Michael Rigsby]

Jairus,

Dan will probably replace it for you with one of the new arms that's tied. He has for several people who I know have done exactly that. The sad thing is, the epoxy used is A: Not enough B: too low a temp to do
any good with the heat those motors generate.

What I try to do, when I have to buy a new sealed motor off the wall. First, change the brushes to Gold Dust brushes and use the stock springs only. Put it on a power supply at 3 volts for a half hour, then turn it down to two volts and let it run for an hour and note the amp draw. It will normally be between 1.5 and 2.0 amps. Put it in the car and run it all out in race mode for 26 laps or so, or about what one heat would be. Let it cool for two minutes, then do the same thing again. By this time, the windings have spread enough, and the heat has gotten up high enough in the motor it will do one of three things. It will either start slowing down and then smoke which is the epoxy melting. It will throw a wind and go up in flames, or it will keep on booking, in which case that is going to be my race motor. I might add here that this motor is one I will not use a water break in on anymore. The water break in seems to make it worse as far as longevity. Not sure what happens, but the dry break in gives me more reliable motors.

Sorry to say it, but of all the Pro Slot motors, that S16D Chinese arm motor is a P.O.S. For our local racing we use the Chinese cans and magnets, which are good, and the American made arms, which are much better and easier to get speed out of and definitely last longer for the most part.

Even a Falcon VII will last longer than the PS S16D Chinese arm......much longer.

Michael Rigsby

[Hworth08]

On a Hill Climb with a flexi frame and NASCAR body I would use a regular, not a Super, 16D. Geared 14/37 with Piraha .765 tires on a non-glued track.

Even on a King track a regular 16D is usually as fast as a Super D without higher downforce bodies. A Super16D is actually a bit of a mis-fit motor. Super C motors are good fast motors, the D version just never has been much of a motor.

[Jairus]

Michael, last week I asked for tips and 4 members added their two cents. I used 90% of the tips and the motor was a rocket during practice and the car a missile once the tires warmed up. If it were not for the thrown wire I would have been a happy camper, water break-in non-withstanding. Gold Dust brushes are in all my racing cars!!!

Thanks for the tips... I will add them to the word document.

[Jairus]

On a Hill Climb with a flexi frame and NASCAR body I would use a regular, not a Super, 16D. Geared 14/37 with Piraha .765 tires on a non-glued track.

Even on a King track a regular 16D is usually as fast as a Super D without higher downforce bodies. A Super16D is actually a bit of a mis-fit motor. Super C motors are good fast motors, the D version just never has been much of a motor.

Don, my S16D is running 12/39 with shimmed up magnets (Gap... hell, I don't have a gauge but looks about .010), aligned brush tubes and Gold Dust brushes. I like how it is running now and will not change unless I can get a good bullet proofed chinese arm from John for the PS2001. Beyond that, I am only racing for the fish, for the experience, and for the beer! No more money will be spent on that car till after the next race as I am BROKE, Broke, broke!
(even the busted Taurus body stays and I am a painted by trade! )

[Phil Irvin]

I might add here that this motor is one I will not use a water break in on anymore. The water break in seems to make it worse as far as longevity. Not sure what happens, but the dry break in gives me more reliable motors.

Sorry to say it, but of all the Pro Slot motors, that S16D Chinese arm motor is a P.O.S. For our local racing we use the Chinese cans and magnets, which are good, and the American made arms, which are much better and easier to get speed out of and definitely last longer for the most part.

Even a Falcon VII will last longer than the PS S16D Chinese arm......much longer.

Michael Rigsby

MIKE,

I too have had some problems with the water break in. What I found here, super hard water, is that all it takes is a little sludge to bridge the gap between segments and will cause all sorts of havic. What I do now is when I take the running motor out of the water is spray it with motor spray. I use the extended tip to blast the gap clean...and clean any water out of the motor and put a squarte of naptha on the running motor & watch the amp draw settle. Takes another min. or 2. I have had to do this on any motor I have done in the last 2 years. I have not worked with the current crop of PS S16Ds.

PHIL I.

[Pablo]

Hey Jairus, when I said I used water break in with success, I meant "the water we have here in the Southeast"
Which is high quality, particulate free, very soft, and tastes great.
I'll bet your H2O is good quality, but it may be a lot harder than what we have here, am I right ?

I'm following your Flexi experiences, Jairus, so please forgive me if this has already been discussed, but what, exactly, are your motor rules for this flexi class you run ? I'm wondering why you run motors that are unreliable. I have a S16D built by BOW and it is a missile, would it be legal ? As you said, you are taking the arms out, so I'm curious about the rules.

[Jairus]

Motor rules are S16D Parma motor (green endbell) unsealed and Pro Slot 16D 2001 unsealed.

Carrie and Jeff both ran yesterday with sealed Pro Slot motors with NO problems. Plus they had over two hours practice on the motors and 10/37 ratio.
If I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all.

My water comes directly out of the Santiam river and is considered some of the best tasting water in the world. Hard water has lots of minerals in it and usually comes from wells, but not always. I think I just got a bad one - someone had to....!

[Pablo]

OK if I was running that class, I would take a new motor, match and secure the mags, true the comm, balance the arm, center it up, check the bushings and hoods, change to Gold Dust brushes, water break in (distilled water) followed by a 10 sec Naptha bath, and go racing. Did I miss anything, or am I FOS ?

[Jairus]

I did ALL THAT and more!
Still didn't and couldn't avoid or fix a thrown wire. I need a good arm to send out to an arm winder of fantastic repute, to tye and re-balance. Maybe even epoxy it to with-in an inch of it's life.

[J-Sull]

Hey Jairus! Good news report. I've dined at the hag a few times along with the chowder house and the Tidal Waves, I believe. It's always seafood for me. Clam chowder is always the measureing piece and frequently fish and chips. I've thru there six or eight times over the last ten years. Now I need to look for slot tracks. Any other known tracks? Gus

Not to be picky but it is Tidal Raves Kellie and I ate there Friday night. Excelent food, but pretty spendy

[Phil Irvin]

My god, Pablo... A speed secret... DISTILLED WATER... WITH NO IMPURITIES... Wow! Save me a squirt of motor cleaner... And some naptha, too...

PHIL I.

[Gus Kelley]

Hey Jeremy! I've been up and down the ore coast numerous times visiting friends and of course I'm an eater, love my food. My real question or comment is about the number of tracks. I've following the blogs about the discovery in the storage shed and am excited for you guys. I'm keeping tabs for my future excursions. Gus

[Jairus]

Gus, thus far there's only one commercial track in Oregon currently in operation. Depoe Bay Raceway is open Wednesday through Sunday 12pm to 7pm and caters mostly to tourists who come in to play minature golf or run the rental cars.

As you mention, a track was discovered in storage here in Oregon when the owner passed away. He was a packrat/ebay seller who managed to aquire three tracks and a bunch of equipment we picked up for pennys. However, it will be months until a location can be found and the track set up for commercial operation.

What must be mentioned is that there are quite a few club tracks here in Oregon... 4 at last count all over the Willamette Valley! The members seem to welcome guests on race night and participate in their programs. I personally have been invited a number of times. My only problem with taking part is their race programs seem to be a bit... ah, restricted. They pretty much allow ONLY hard body cars with brass pan chassis and non-stock foam tires running sealed 16D motors. I have talked with a few of the members and so far none of them are open to anything new or allowing anything vintage.... however I am fairly certain that card carrying members can run whatever THEY want during practice.

[Mark F]

I have to pause from laughing at some of the comments and advices made here about our track in Depoe Bay.
First off... everyone here in these forums that hasn't run on this track seems to be an expert at what to use and what gear ratio is best at our track.
I've seen posts here that state... use 16D motors with to the moon gear ratios. Use this.. don't use that... (sounds like a song in the 60's). If we did that on OUR track.. it would burn up the motor within the first heat. I have yet to throw a wind on a Proslot off the wall motor. Other people have because they try to get more RPM than what it takes to get around the track at the fastest times WITHOUT blowing the motor. Agreed, the Chinese arms are not put together as well... but if you come into it knowing that, you can adjust your gearing to compensate for it.
"have to use JK supernaturals, nothing else works" Seems to me that every track is different, and unless you have run this track, how do you know?
Alpha and Tuna tires are what we sell... and I have sold all of them and these two are what work best on our track here in Depoe Bay.
First suggestion I have always given someone when asking about what to run at what track is.... ask the guy that sells and works on the parts. He knows best.
I've had people come in and say I am spray gluing the track all wrong... cleaning the track all wrong... etc. They are now out of business but they knew best I suppose.

Every track is different. Unless you have physically ran the track here in Depoe Bay... then your advice on what to use and what not to use is basically all wrong. Sorry.

People come here and say they are going to run on a Blue King in BPR. What to do? I say, you know what... I don't know since I never ran down there. Ask the guy that owns the place. If you want... I can start giving unproven advice from up here... but I'm not like that.
I just want people that race at Depoe Bay Raceway a chance to compete... and be on a level playing field. When I get comments like, well I was told to only use JK tires... or I was told to use a 12 T pinion on a 27 T gear... I already know they won't listen to my advice because they got theirs from so called "experts" on the web.


Ranting over with... going back to my small corner of the world where I don't know how to clean a track or put enough spray glue down on the corners.

[Jairus]

Mark,
All due respect to you and your experience but I believe the members of this forum are giving me advice because I asked for it. I started this thread and I do not mind advice given to me because I am still new and wet behind the ears when it comes to racing. Therefore I post questions and ask for suggestions regarding making my cars as competitive as possible.
But! When it comes down to putting power to the winds....who's opinion do I hold in the highest regard? Mark, Carrie, Jeff and Jimmy - THAT'S WHO!

My car during practice was as close as was possible to Jeff's car right down to the gear ratio and yet my motor, purchased right off your wall, died during practice. Here is the arm btw....
Have no idea why the lose wire did not fly out and become more apparent... but.
(Can it be saved?)





Which brings me to my next question for both Mark and the members of the forum.
Mail came today and guess what was in it.


That's right... the arm I sent to John Havlicek for com tying. The arm that I didn't have by race day. The arm that was lost in the mail for 4 or 5 weeks! Envelope postmarked Monday in East Hampton, NY. I figure it got lost when the mail guy picked it up out of the box or somewhere in the process prior to being stamped. Arm looks BEAUTIFUL John!!! Thank you!!!

But... I notice the stacks are different lengths. Hmmmmm
Well, I am not usually this ignorant but I suspect the arms come from slightly different motors used for different classes?!?!
The question for Mark is: Can I still use it in the NASCAR races? I suspect that the longer wires and larger stacks will make the motor slower but more powerful with buckets of torque thus making higher gear ratios possible.
Actually the longer stack length seems similar and comparable to the Parma S16D, which has a longer stack length.

Ah well, live and learn.

[Hworth08]

The USRA stack length for a Super16D is .600.

Mark, IIRC, Jairus started this thread to gain info, not to report race results. You may be a fine racer with a lot of experience with people that race on a national level. If not, a person as described can come to your track, use legal, similiar equiment, and turn laps 15 to 20% faster than what's be turned now. A really fast racer is quite a bit better than someone that hasn't raced with a fast group.

[Jairus]

Thanks Don. The longer one measures 9/16" and the shorter one 7/16". The short arm was in a labeled package from ProSlot as PS-2001 SpeedFX S16D Balanced Motor.


Now I want to know what Jeff and Carrie are running..... and which is legal.

[Michael Rigsby]

The shorter stack arm in the back of the pic is a Chinese SpeedFX S16D. The one if the foreground is the Chinese SpeedFX 16D. If you look at the output end of the arm, you'll see the brass collar is further away from the stack on the S16D, they do this so they can use the same Can and magnets for both motors.

The S16D arm with the broken wire at the comm tab is pretty typical of the failures they have.

Michael Rigsby

[Mark F]

Jairus.. as we discussed last Sunday about the typed word....
I just see that the advice given here a few times is funny as hell.
AS for others coming and running 15-20% faster? Bring it! I'm sure there are a few lanes available.
Action is louder than words.
We've had the Portland Pros down when the Vancouver Speedway was alive and well, but of course some complained that I didn't have enough spray glue on the track to make their tires work well for them...etc. Excuses I guess.
All racers, pro or otherwise ( and I am talking 1-1 scale as well as model scale racing ) have specs for each and every track they race.
Gear ratios, suspension setups, tires, wheel to wheel weight balances, etc. Think you get my drift.

Its your thread Jairus... I just think some of the advice given without knowing the specs and dimensions of the track AND without running on it.. pro or otherwise... is mute point.