216 replies to this topic

[Jonathan Forsyth]

Mark, am I the only one that finds it curious that Doug and Jonathan want only JK tires, yet Pro Track is the tire of choice for the Jail Door class, and How would you know that Thunder And Wonder Rubber run .1 seconds faster if you did not have any experience with them ???
Call me crazy, but I just wonder how some can be so sure of what one tire or another can do if they have not had any experience with them ? Do you detect that some doth protest a little too much ???? Mark, hope to see you, the tire controversy is like the motor controversy and the take a number for the Buena Park Bathroom Motor Break in program. We are all just racing for fun , aren't we ????

Mill, sorry I should have been more clear. I only see this as an issue for races on the King Track, so Can-Am and F-1. I think Doug was implying the same as well. I don't know what works for Jaildoor and so forth and don't want to make any judgements towards a class I won't be racing.

I am for running any tires it doesn't matter, just as long as I know ahead of time what will be legal so I don't show up unprepared.

See everyone next weekend.
Jonathan

[Noose]

What happens if a guy makes his own tires ?

[Gus Kelley]

Hey Noose! Well said! But I think those may ruled illegal? Gus in Sacto

[Bryan Warmack]

Buena Park stocks and sells Wonder rubber. However they don't stock EVERY single possible hub size, hardness, diameter, drilled or undrilled, combination by EVERY different manufacturer and certainly shouldn't be expected to do so. A question now that it appears to be an issue........... Are my JK 8703 and Alpha drilled big hub medium Wonder tires, that I have been running in the last several King track races for the last 6 months, legal for the Checkpoint or not? If the answer to this is no, someone better come up with a spec tire REAL QUICK so everyone knows whats legal and Buena Park better start placing some feverish orders!!

[Mark Wampler]

I discussed this with Paul today, "legal D3 tires must be available for all the racers at BPR on race day".

Clock is ticking. Keith should be weighing in on this since he is on the D3 board. Doug, you should run for office if you want to be a D3 spokesman.

Some of us outa towners want to know in advance what is and what ain't "legal"
As confirmed in the D3 rules web page, there are no references to brand or formula for rear tires.

[Dave Larsen]

I have a question here

What about a guy that glues/trues his own tires like myself. I buy my rubber from Alpha ( Piranha, Treated & Wounder rubber ) I use Gilbert, Hermanator & JK wheels. I DO NOT buy over the counter tires. I have never done so in the past when I was racing at BP in the D-3 race program, There's nothing in the rules stating that I CAN'T use this method for my choice in tires.

Dave

[Howie Ursaner]

I never realized that D3 was a Buena Park spec tire series.Tires are available to racers everywhere.In all of the rest of the country racers are free to chose any tire that is legal,order it, test it and determine if it helps performance.What if the raceway is out of the tire they normally stock and you need it.Many people have come into Buena Park and raced with tires not available there. What is so different now? It is also easy to mount your own rubber on JK rims and nobody knows what you have. Having more choices with tires is more of a challenge and it is easy to choose wrong.What you think works one minute will bite you the next.

[Dave Larsen]

As far as I know Howie.....

It never has been. I have no idea what all this tire posting is about just maybe someone will chime in with some concrete answers


Dave

[hjames]

I think what is happening here is that certain racers are looking out for the best interest of the track. In my opinion the is the job of the track not the racers or the race organization. Each track has a choice of what to carry, just as each racer has a choice of what to buy and sometimes those items do not cross. The written rules seem simple let's not make them complicated. Some of us have b een down that road. There is a deadend sign a waitin

[Jonathan Forsyth]

I guess what I want to know is if the Thunder Rubber will be legal? From my understanding Buena Park won't have it in stock, and I don't want to order it and be told it's not going to be legal to race.

I have no problem testing out different tires to see what works and what they like the best. I just don't see the point in going through the expense of testing a tire, if it's not going to be legal.

Whatever is decided, I am a-ok with. Would just like to know by Sunday night, so I can make tire arrangements for the race.

[Dave Larsen]

HEY "HERMANATOR"

How in the heck are you my BROTHER

I hope you and your Family had a nice Holiday season You going to this "GIG"

I think what is happening here is that certain racers are looking out for the best interest of the track. In my opinion the is the job of the track not the racers or the race organization. Each track has a choice of what to carry, just as each racer has a choice of what to buy and sometimes those items do not cross. The written rules seem simple let's not make them complicated. Some of us have b een down that road. There is a deadend sign a waitin

Well said


As always my BROTHER


The Vitter....."A EVIL BUCK$ RACER"

[redbackspyder]

To All,

After speaking with Jim, THE RACEWAY OWNER, he can order anything that you want. He does not carry every size and type because he is not familiar with everything that everyone runs. Just as he said he was ordering Falcon 7 motors for the upcoming race, and pinions so that there will be plenty for the HAND OUT MOTORS, he can order any tire your little hearts desire from Alpha, JK, Kelly or Thunder (Port Jeff ) . So, the LAZY will have no excuse, because if he places an order you will have it in plenty of time for the race. If you were not doing the testing to see what rubber best fits your car, who is to blame ???? Spec tires, Spec Gear Ratio, what is next , IROC CARS only ! How about just erector set chassis. JIM DOES NOT STOCK EVERY TIRE, BUT HE CAN ORDER THEM. Alpha Wonder Rubber is commercially available, so is JK, so is Pro track, so is Kelly,, so What could Possibly Now be the PROBLEM????????

The unprepared are the ones that need only one tire. To Cut out Manufacturers is Ridiculous. IF YOU CAN NOT AFFORD THE TIRES, WHY ARE YOU RACING IN THE FIRST PLACE. Philippe and Paul and Mike originally made it simple by coming up with an affordable , throw away performance motor. You spend more money on tires because they wear out faster than the motors. That is why many of us , glue and true our own from donuts. ARE YOU GOING TO BAN THAT AS WELL ????? Guys like Herman and the Vitter do their own tires from rubber that is commercially available. Show me the D3 Rules that designate Spec Tires . Show me the D3 rules that outlaw Wonder Rubber, Thunder Rubber or Kelly rubber. The only rules that I believe were told was NO SPEED RUBBER, AND NO SILICONES.

WHY IS IT AT THE LAST MINUTE, THOSE WHO CHOSE NOT TO TRY DIFFERENT TIRES WANT TO BAN THOSE THAT DID ???
AND, WHY IS IT THAT YOU WOULD WAIT 11 1/2 MONTHS TO BRING THIS SUBJECT UP WHEN YOU KNOW THE CHECKPOINT CUP WELL IN ADVANCE. YOU HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO TEST, THERE IS EVEN A RACE POSSIBLY TOMORROW ON THE KING TRACK.

Lastly, if you know that Wonder Rubber is the end all savior, as many have purported, whose fault is it for not buying or ordering it ???

[Mike K]

Mill-

It's great that you have gone the extra mile to check with BPR and what they have available.

With all of that said, we still have not heard from the D3 orgianizers as to what is legal and what is not. They have not addressed the published rules as to whether there have been changes or if they are even following the published rules in regard to TIRES.

Based on a previous post, and assuming that it is accurate, it appeared that Paul Sterrett had made a change to what was going to be acceptable and what guidelines as to "availability" (i.e. BPR only) were going to be followed. These "new" rules or changes to the rules are not in print and should be clarified to those who need to know.......

[redbackspyder]

Mike, I went to the track today to talk to Paul. He had already left by the 1 pm time that I got there. I stayed until closing with Phil Nyland . We never saw Paul. Philippe and I spoke as he left the track, and there was no change in the rules when Philippe left. He said to me that a change in the tire rule is BS. And Especially at this point in the game. I would be more worried about the legality of the 3rd Eye Hand controller for some than this Hail Mary approach by some to change the tire rules.

[Mike K]

Mike, I went to the track today to talk to Paul. He had already left by the 1 pm time that I got there. I stayed until closing with Phil Nyland . We never saw Paul. Philippe and I spoke as he left the track, and there was no change in the rules when Philippe left. He said to me that a change in the tire rule is BS. And Especially at this point in the game. I would be more worried about the legality of the 3rd Eye Hand controller for some than this Hail Mary approach by some to change the tire rules.

Again, glad you went the extra mile, but what is being said elsewhere in this thread is not in concert with the rules or listed anywhere on the "official" D3 web site or rules. From what you say if there are no changes to the rules, then ALL tires are legal since there is no regulation of tire type or brand or availability in the rules.

From Keith post #69:

Paul has stated many times in the past that whatever tires we use must be available over the counter at BP.

NOT in the published rules....


From Doug post #88

the D3 rules require legal tires must be regularly stocked at BPR

NOT in the published rules....


From Doug in post #99

I discussed this with Paul today, "legal D3 tires must be available for all the racers at BPR on race day".
I asked him if I could run Alpha Wonder rubber, he said yes if they are stocked and available at BPR on race day.

NOT in the published rules....


Someone just needs to address the confusion......hate for there to be a BIG surprise the day of the BIG race. Been there, done that at the 2000 USRA nats at BPR with GT12 chassis....

[Noose]

I am glad I didn't buy a plane ticket. It is not in the published rules and the only thing I ever saw announced is that speed rubber is not legal just like in IRRA.

[TSR]

As far as I know, there are no changes in tire rules. The only disallowed kind of tires are any that contain anything other than natural rubber. The tires must also be obtainable from regular distributors so that the raceway may order them.
A mouse out of a mountain as usual.

[Mopar Rob]

As far as I know, there are no changes in tire rules. The only disallowed kind of tires are any that contain anything other than natural rubber. The tires must also be obtainable from regular distributors so that the raceway may order them.
A mouse out of a mountain as usual.

Not that I can attend anyway, but my interpertation of what you are saying is:

The tire has to be commercially available and be able to be purchased at discount by BP for their racers? Whether BP orders it or not is irrelevent. What's important is that it is obtainable?

I assume it's just trying to avoid some racer with their own rubber that no one else can get? Racers like Vitter who mount their own also don't have any issues if using commercially available doughnuts?

[TSR]

Rob, that's correct. Also people appear to be freaking out about the number of options, but the truth is, "thunder rubber" is nothing else but regular "wonder rubber", a harder compound that is sometimes preferable on fast tracks if the track is a bit too sticky. It does not matter who produces the tires, the rubber (regardless of the type) all comes from the same supplier...
The important thing here is this: racers must prepare. We are now one week from a big race and the subject is being raised? ALL these tires can be ordered from the raceway if the raceway does not have them in stock. ANY tire that the raceway CANNOT buy from a distributor, are the only tires that are illegal, along with the aforementioned tires that contain other substances over natural rubber.
I will have a full clarification of this today in a discussion with Paul, but I think that what I am saying here is accurate.

And I am one pushing for a spec tire, so you know where I stand, and that my personal preferences are not involved here.
I will also ask about the situation where racers buy donuts and make their own tires, as it of course must be addressed. I personally do not see anything wrong with it if the rubber and wheels used are available to all from a distributor to a raceway.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

Given our weather, I think it is probably contraindicated to drive down. But Charlie Nelson is taking the risk. Please help him get to speed. Another ex-so cal racer will be in LA that weekend named Steve, another good driver, but i don't think he will have cars.

Sigh.

Fate

[Rick]

Tough running an org with an absentee director, huh?............

[TSR]

Rick,
Paul is not only omnipresent but is the one doing the most work in track preparation, general negotiations and organization. Keith is helping immensely and provides communication if necessary. What is the problem exactly? Because he does not post on forums, is is "absent"? Only in your mind.

[Rick]

Rick,
Paul is not only omnipresent but is the one doing the most work in track preparation, general negotiations and organization. Keith is helping immensely and provides communication if necessary. What is the problem exactly? Because he does not post on forums, is is "absent"? Only in your mind.

Yup, I can tell by how well this is all moving along.

Bringing up wholesale rule changes, even in discussion, may not be healthy for the track(event) you say you love. The only post by the furor states only tires that are available over the counter, that day, will be legal. Maybe I am reading wrong, but that was the statement and nowhere in D3 rules are tires restricted, with the exception of speed rubber. Other than size.

[Mike K]

Rick-

Not even "speed rubber" is indicated as not-legal in the published rules. These caveats of the rules have come about by discussion within small groups, at the tech table, etc, and have been circulated by urban myth and rumor rather than in a proper manner of publishing them on the "official" web site.

You are correct, as you probably know, that the only stipulation on tires are sizes.

Makes it kind of tough to prepare and comply if you're not a weekly racer, in the "group" or especially if you are coming from out of town.

[Rick]

Rick-

Not even "speed rubber" is indicated as not-legal in the published rules. These caveats of the rules have come about by discussion within small groups, at the tech table, etc, and have been circulated by urban myth and rumor rather than in a proper manner of publishing them on the "official" web site.

You are correct, as you probably know, that the only stipulation on tires are sizes.

Makes it kind of tough to prepare and comply if you're not a weekly racer, in the "group" or especially if you are coming from out of town.

Agreed Mike and the race is no very far out, something better get published pretty soon or many of those "out of town" racers will be out of town when the green drops............