Jump to content




Photo

The two-rail chassis revolution


  • Please log in to reply
142 replies to this topic

#51 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,005 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 06 January 2011 - 09:56 AM

clap, clap, clap....

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip





#52 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,630 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:19 AM

Rick,
We used to dye the Jet Flags in dark green at Checkpoint and it worked fine... :)

#53 GTPJoe

GTPJoe

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 448 posts
  • Joined: 26-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manch-Vegas NH

Posted 06 January 2011 - 06:23 PM

Hi Rick,

All this Thorp stuff, like the ads, jogged my memory of another chassis shown here awhile back.
And Kondor was at the controller with a Morrissey chassis powered with a Thorp arm..
Remember this?

morrissey_kondor.jpg

Maybe another build??

See ya!
GTP Joe Connolly

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice there is.

#54 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,160 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:22 PM

Hi Joe,

That's a beautiful car Mike built. It's about a year after the 1969 Hinsdale race. Love the C-can at the shallow motor angle.

"So many slot cars to build, so little time". :)

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#55 Steve Deiters

Steve Deiters

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,933 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH

Posted 07 January 2011 - 09:40 AM

Hi Rick,

All this Thorp stuff, like the ads, jogged my memory of another chassis shown here awhile back.
And Kondor was at the controller with a Morrissey chassis powered with a Thorp arm..
Remember this?

morrissey_kondor.jpg

Maybe another build??

See ya!

Ah yes! A 1/8" Arcolite axle on the front with a segmented axle tube, multi-strand lead wire from the motor, #2 split nose self tapping screw with and oversized washer melted down into the tuncated Jet Flag post,48 pitch Cox spur gear, upright body stiffeners on the rear of the pans,diaplane (probably mylar) and spoiler (probably lexan) stapled to the body, flat brass stock bridging the motor box, notched bat pans,a working drop arm with a straight retention spring of .032 wire, and a chassis with more hinges than rationals to use them driven by a screaming Thorp 26-27 arm in a "C" can....you can almost smell the Dart and lighter fluid in the air!!!

#56 zipper

zipper

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 654 posts
  • Joined: 11-August 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Finland

Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:25 AM

I ditched my Arcolite after the first race as I lost a wheel - didn't realize a flat on the axle might have helped.
Pekka Sippola

#57 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,005 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:24 PM

Those fiberglass axles used to grind away the inside of the axle tubes...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#58 Ben Martinez III

Ben Martinez III

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Joined: 08-June 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston

Posted 07 January 2011 - 04:22 PM

And they were noisy as hell - best lubricant for them was lighter fluid

#59 Jaz

Jaz

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 324 posts
  • Joined: 10-March 06

Posted 07 January 2011 - 04:40 PM

After being throughly destroyed one nite at Nutley, I bought my first real 'pro' arm from Tango, a Thorp Dbl27. Back on Long Island, I was immediately harassed by Jim Greenaway for my purchase. I used a selection of different arms from various makers like Reeteez and Thorp and a Steube (that one was a rocket!!). My motor building skills of the day were not quite up to snuff and I usually wound up smoking them - the arms that is (it was the 60's).
Finally, I broke down and saved up a princely sum of $40 to have Jim build me a proper motor which lasted quite a long time.

Jeff Morris

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over." Fuds 1st law of opposition

 

"It goes in...it must come out!"  Teslicles Devient to Fuds 1st law


#60 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,160 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 08 January 2011 - 06:14 PM

You are not going to paint it black? :)


Black! Black is meaner looking.


Probably an endbell from a Mura M444 that were black...


“So let it be written….so let it be done”. Yul Brynner

Posted Image

Well, I do my best anyway. I’ve never done the black dye thing before….. :unsure:


My wife left the house for a while this morning. Time to try dying that endbell :unsure: I broke out the liquid BLACK Rit dye and went to town. I lined the stove and sink with aluminum foil. I also lined the pot but that didn't work, it burned through:

Posted Image

Dying the endbell did work quite nicely. Painting the chrome can worked out too:

Posted Image

Here's the re-assembled motor in "Evil Bucks Racer" black :D with a masked off and tinned area for soldering the brace:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#61 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,005 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 08 January 2011 - 06:18 PM

Beautiful!

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#62 JerseyJohn

JerseyJohn

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,900 posts
  • Joined: 05-September 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern NJ

Posted 08 January 2011 - 06:56 PM

Bloomington Gold RICK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JJ TRADE MARK BANNER copy.jpg

John Chas Molnar

"Certified Newark Wise Guy since 1984" (retired)
"Certified Tony P Chassis God since 2007"
" Internationally Know Slot Car Racing Celebrity "
https://www.facebook...nchassisworks/#
Email me
 


#63 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,160 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 08 January 2011 - 07:17 PM

Thanks Tony and John.

I ran the motor through a break in process again (1.2V - 10 min, 2V - 20 min, 3V - 10 min) and it again ran a bit hot for the first 10 minutes. Then then settled down and ran just a bit warm (not at all hot) for the rest of the process.

I don't know why it ran so hot the first time I ran it. I know the bearings weren't binding then or now.

Maybe it was pissed I didn't paint it black in the first place :shok: . Well, whatever, it's sure happy now :laugh2: .

Another thing I noticed is how smooth it runs. You guys were talking about how good the Thorp balance was and this motor is the smoothest vintage motor I've tried.

Thanks again to everyone for all the input :) . Time to build a chassis.......

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#64 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,160 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 09 January 2011 - 10:22 PM

Finally I can start the chassis now that the type of motor I want to use has been decided. So let's follow Mike Morrissey's construction article I posted earlier:

Posted Image

I started with modifying this still available Russkit motor bracket like so:

Posted Image

The axle tube is cut to length, relieved and the jig motor soldered in place with an L-brace. I decided on a 15 degree motor angle:

Posted Image

The first "half rail" is installed. Yes I know it supposed to be a half rail and mine are REALLY long. Leaving things long helps me get them REALLY aligned :) :

Posted Image

The other half rail has to clear the rear tire. The endbell drive configuration makes this somewhat tricky:

Posted Image

Adding the cross brace ties things together....

Posted Image

....and I'm at step 8 on Mike's construction article:

Posted Image

For me, this was the hard part.

Lets roll :D

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#65 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,160 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 16 January 2011 - 04:23 PM

Next up are steps 9 and 10 plus motor bracket and rear axle tube bracing. Mike dropped the ball after step 10 and just showed some finished chassis pictures. I'll try and show the steps he omitted:

Posted Image

Here my Rick's Jig has everything set up for the 1 1/4" drop arm. The half rails are cut to length. The straight inside rails are 1/16" brass, the outers are piano wire bent to match the contour of the half rails:

Posted Image

Everything soldered up:

Posted Image

An L-shaped brace strengthens the rear axle tube. Mike faces his rearward like mine. Bob pointed his forward:

Posted Image

Bob attached his motor bracket to axle tube brace on the inside of the bracket. I put mine on the outside like so:

Posted Image

That picture reminded me I need to finish soldering the brace on top of the axle tube. I didn't want to run the solder all the way to the end for fear of soldering in the bearing too.

Anywho, that brace has to clear the spur gear and it takes some fancy-lad bends:

Posted Image

Posted Image

The rear half rail has to clear the motor and rear tire. It's a tight squeeze:

Posted Image

A bottom view:

Posted Image

I add a temporary cross brace on the front until I get the front axle on:

Posted Image

So step 10 is finished and we're on our own......the front axle tube beckons :) .

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#66 Phil Irvin

Phil Irvin

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,764 posts
  • Joined: 21-July 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wesley Chapel, FL

Posted 16 January 2011 - 09:20 PM

:wub: :wub:

Lookin good...Wish I could build so 'nice'.. :D

OLPHRT
PHIL I. ;)

#67 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,160 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 17 January 2011 - 12:49 AM

Thanks Phil,

I love building these old slot cars. I hope some will build one and stuff some hairy open motor in just like they did back in the day :shok: ........PUNCH THE BANK!

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#68 endbelldrive

endbelldrive

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,740 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Location:Witless Protection Program

Posted 17 January 2011 - 02:25 AM

I love looking at and building these old cars too. :wub: I don't have a raceway within a few hundred miles but I build 'em anyway. :scratch_one-s_head:
Bob Suzuki

#69 Champion 507

Champion 507

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,479 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:OK

Posted 17 January 2011 - 04:31 AM

Rick's jig motor looks better than a lot of my running motorsPosted ImagePosted Image

That Champion motor set up with Mura endbell will look mitey fine in that chassis! Good work as always, Rick!Posted Image
Doug Azary
"We offer prompt service... no matter how long it takes!"
"We're not happy unless you're not happy"
"You want it when?"

#70 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,160 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 19 January 2011 - 11:16 PM

I don't have a raceway within a few hundred miles but I'd build 'em anyway. :scratch_one-s_head:


I hear ya, I would too. Right now I'm lucky to have one within a day trip...THANKS EDDIE!

I've got the front axle installed with neato cut-outs in the axle tube:

Posted Image

This early car has the rear upright facing toward the rear of the car. Later cars had it facing forward:

Posted Image

The wheelbase is 3 15/16" which was Morrissey considered one of Bob's "short wheelbase" cars in early 1969:

Posted Image

I want to share something that worked really well for me installing the front axle tube:

Posted Image

#1: Lay in the front upright. Make it's height a couple of inches longer than needed with a nice 90 degree bend. Put it in place against the front axle tube and get it as aligned as well as you can by eye-ball.

#2: Put a nice little cold solder blob on one side of the upright. This "cold joint" will keep it from falling over but it will still be loose enough to move into alignment. Once you’ve aligned it with a square, solder it to the axle tube.

#3: Now tack the rear upright in place the same way. The extra long ends will make aligning the front and rear uprights easy.

Onward......

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#71 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,568 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou, Mississippi Gulf Coast

Posted 19 January 2011 - 11:28 PM

:D
Paul Wolcott

#72 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,160 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 30 January 2011 - 02:15 PM

Sometimes all doesn't go smoothly in "Chassis Land". I had some problems that I thought I'd share. Sometimes you just need to fix what went wrong as best you can, learn from it and move on.

I remember when I was working on the shop floor as a machinist. Sometimes as I was making the part I felt like I was "saving" the part from one operation to the next :laugh2: . They would get made to spec but :blink:

Anywho, let the adventure begin :) :

The drop arm is a Cobra 1 1/4" wide by 1/16" brass slab. Bob modified his for the plumber pivot tubes. From the fuzzy pictures I first made mine like this (stock arm on the left):

Posted Image

I didn't like that much so I went further:

Posted Image

Bob skillfully used a cut-off wheel in a Dremel to relieve the drop arm for "solder stops" for the pivot tube. I substituted my milling machine for skill and cut the reliefs on the right:

Posted Image

Next I had to fix some ugly solder joints :blink: . The joint had a solder fillet that was either too small and didn't go evenly across the joint or it was just too big and ugly :angry: .

If you are a mere mortal like me stuff like this happens so just fix it ;) . Use the iron to drag the extra solder to a location where it will be easy to remove.......

Posted Image

.....with a Greg Wells "Solder Blob Sucker Upper":

Posted Image

Then the collateral damage where the iron was moved across the drop arm is sanded off and all is well. This NOT shaping the solder joint with files or sandpaper. This is not too bad of a "save":

Posted Image

The next problem I really couldn't fix so I had to do a "work around". I figured out how I THINK Bob braced his drop arm pivot tubes after I made my half rails too long. I think he use a Z-brace as shown in red below:

Posted Image

I could have moved my pivot tubes farther forward but I wanted to keep them at the MAGIC 2 1/8" from the front axle that Morrissey spoke of. Instead I used an L-shaped brace going under the pivot tube. Here it is all cleaned up:

Posted Image

The other dimensions that Morrissey said Howie's chassis had are a 3 15/16" wheelbase and 15/16" guide lead:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Plumber time.....

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#73 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 30 January 2011 - 06:04 PM

I'll be happy to see the plumber too. No matter how weird that sounds.

Rikky, I'm goin' sorta crazy here, looking at all that crazing and cracking on a simple z-bend drop arm! We gotta do better than this, and I don't care how long this hasn't been a problem for anyone. Can you send me a drop arm to copy, so I can tool up for a proper job once & for all? I'd like to give it a whack. I think it's a Just Cause.

Duffy
Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder

#74 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,160 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 30 January 2011 - 06:50 PM

Hi Duffy,

"That's vintage", my vintage slot car collector mentor Dave used to say. That is the worst Cobra drop arm I've seen so far. They don't grow on trees so they get used crazed or not ;) .

They are much more available than this Team Nutley drop arm:

Posted Image

It is similar in shape to the common Parma but much longer and usually made from thicker material. The "TEAM NUTLEY" is also usually stamped a bit neater and lower near the rectangular hole.

They are RARE!. I was desperate enough for one to bid over $100 for this one and I still lost the bid to LASCM (any time I see a feedback of over 4500 on a bidder I assume it's LASCM :) ). If you really want to make a drop arm, this is the one to make IMHO :) .

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#75 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 30 January 2011 - 07:03 PM

Well then: done.
Be a good boy, pop over & steal it from LASCM and send it to me, I'll put it through 15-year-old Duffy's CMM and Rhennius Machine, and return it and several perfect clones within the week. --Clones SANS-crazing, certainement.


fra. Dufay
Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder





Electric Dreams Online Shop