475 replies to this topic

[Jairus]

David, Something to consider is that todays motors have quite a bit of power! Even an over the counter Pro-Slot 4002 with the American Arm is more powerful than the hot winds during the days of old. And I didn't even mention the strap motors that they use in Euro-sport racing.

What I am suggesting is maybe a quick study of what makes the Euro-sport class go and handle so well might be helpful.
1. Very low center of gravity. (Most of the wingy-thingies of old were way too tall.)
2. Concentrated weight at the nose with little weight in the middle. (Most wingy-thingies of old were tail heavy.)
3. Read Cheaters Tome about setting up a Flexi chassis. Many of the tips work for ANY slot car including stiff rear axle mounts, totally flat chassis and getting the right balance of traction vs. slippage.

That is why I suggest everyone build a car and test, test, test! Find the right combination of tires and motor and chassis and perfect it BEFORE we even race.

Of course it would be nice if we all "share the wealth", right?

[Gus Kelley]

Hey Boxer! We used a lot of brass weight on the guide post and 1/16 lead plate placed in the same area, Also back tires were not real wide. Controllers were 2 or 3 ohm with large heat sinks. The cars were definitely touchy.. Capellas would have had a tough time. Actually these were long before I got to know him. Gus in Sacto

[boxerdog]

Great plan, Jairus, but staying within the spirit of the time:

It is too tall, but I don't think the idea is to put a hot motor in a d3 car or (ugh) a euro
It needs some weight for sure but I thought slabs of brass were verboten
I know how to set up a flexi but a vintage U-GO with no movement is not a flexi. Try a wing car with no wings

George etc please chime in here, I think we have a few too many gray areas to suit me

[boxerdog]

Thanks Gus, we are on the same page. This thing is way faster than a 4002 Pro Slot, trust me. Fred C could not get it done!

[Jairus]

Okay, I believe you hahaha.
But I am not saying you need movement to read up on the basics on setting up a slot car. There are a lot of tips Cheater wrote that apply to ALL slot car builds including the vintage ones. That is one reason I replaced the rails on my U-Go chassis, in order to get the chassis as flat as was humanly possible. Unfortunately I feel the ground clearance is too high on the Mule to make it much of a 'giant killer'. The next chassis will be all hand made, in the spirit of the era and much lower.

What do you think of the chassis that Bob built?

[boxerdog]

I like Bob's chassis...I think they both (his and yours) remind me of the 1990 era International 15 chassis like Zaps and Kofords which would probably work well without a ton of downforce. I am going to build a better chassis and hopefully a softer motor as soon as I get some time. I think the U-GO will end up in my archives where it was originally. I may also try out one of our old VMRA-style brass rod cars which were like JD cars without a drop arm...is this allowable too??

[Jairus]

While someone demanded that no movement be allowed, I see no reason make that include installation of a drop arm. I also see no reason to have one in light of todays smooth tracks. But it is still in the vintage spirit.

[Gator Bob]

Well.... Flashback 22 years. I was racing flexi's and and my home track at the time was Radical Raceway in Lodi, NJ. We had a point series going on in two classes, Gr-10 and Outlaw. The Outlaw was winged flexi was the top class with with Parma S16D or Mura Super Wasp arms at the top of the range. Other tracks that I read about were running these kind of cars with GR-12 arms.

The Outlaw class was my focus but I also ran the GR10 class along with my step-son Nick who was 9 years old at the time. I wanted the Outlaw series win, I always had the fastest cars and was building the best motors and modified chassis', my driving was not the "best in class" and had to settle for second in the final standings. The "stock" built GR-10 cars I built were the fastest and I was able to just wear out the competition and took home the the first place money and trophy. Nick did a great job with the coaching provided and great cars I built for him and finished in second. We won over $300 "track bucks" in the the two classes. Get out the inflation calculators

I was missing the "old days" and the only thing I had left in 89/90 was a tonyp $10 chassis with a killer 24 wire Cee Can that I was going to build up in 1973 to try and run with the big dogs up at Elmsford. I watched the Pro's blister the Nuvolari and realized I didn't have the cash, driving OR building skills to even think about running with them. I still have that motor and Tony's chassis (SN# 2133) which has never been built up or run. The only other cars that survived the crazy 60s to about 1970 was a Champion GR-20 car that I put the one piece tall box wing on and a 1/32 Atlas home set car that somehow survived my childhood in my hands since 1964(?) with the AT-206 upgraded BB motor. I still have those two old treasures also. I went as far as I could with the Outlaw cars and got a bit burned out on flexi cars.

The in-line tri-pod that I built WAS constructed in 1990. Talk about a car with "no class".
It is all hand made (without a jig ) except for the motor bracket. I put a GR-12x motor in it a winged Mohawk on it and it ran great It will have to be modified or a replacement made as it is a 1/16" to wide (damn it). Surprisingly when I put it on my new jig the thing is square and flat .


After taking another 20 years off from the hobby (other then buying up everything vintage I could in 2000/2001 when ebay (pre-epay) came on the scene and I was homebound.

When things got tough in my life this hobby has always given me something to look forward too.

So with the empty nest syndrome.....2011 marked my return for round #4 and that creation that had everyone scratching their heads in 1991 is now in style..lol.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it ... "the whole truth and nothing but the truth"

I am blessed to even be here and run with all my new found slot buddies
Thanks guys,
Bob I.

[Gator Bob]

Patent Pending

One wire, six bends, no jig, no bender I think I better let Tony build the next one

[One27ray]

Hey Bob,

Cool chassis makes you think of the possibilities As for the " Repelatron" not sure which one that is maybe "Reptilian" ???
Pic # 3 & 4 molds are being worked on ask we speak stay tuned!

FFFW-Ray

[32Deuce]

Interesting chassis Bob!

Can't wait to see the molds Ray!

Z

[One27ray]

Attention!! this is a notice of Noda's on the Horizon................


Say tuned for future viewing- thanks

i-ray

PS- ran across these pic's of some more Choti's??

[draggon]

Lots of great nostalgia here! Davids correct, we used outriggers, but not with a whole lot of bracing. They were there as a way to mount the body, with more support than just pin tubes, and if you ran pans it was a great place to add weight. And Jairus has got it too. Nailing down the front end with weight, particularly on a drop arm was good stuff. I didnt worry about the back end. Verticle wings took care of that. Weight on the pans, in the front gave it turn in, in the back gave it bite. I ran all of the Choti versions, no. 6 and 8 pretty much sucked. No. 15 showed promise, but as I ran a drop arm, getting it under that low front end was a problem. The no. 5 was the best by far. Interesting how aerodynamics work. Seeing the pics, one would expect maybe the 6 or the 15 to be the best, but they werent!

[draggon]

Well heres proof I have the beginnings of a slot car. Dunno why the images are so small tho....

[endbelldrive]

Awwwright Glenn...this is going to be good!

[Jairus]

Go Glenn!
Champion fronts, Dynamic bracket and Riggen rears... I like it.

[draggon]

Thanks guys!

[Gator Bob]

Glenn... way to go!

Bro-Ray.... those are 2 (too) scarry looking cars

[tonyp]

Is there an actual set in stone set of chassis rules yet?

[draggon]

Lets see, Riggen, Champion, Dynamic, Choti!!....now all we need is MURA! I've found 16-D brackets, know where to get 1/8 axles and ball bearings, got a line on jet-flags, but still need a brass drop arm. 1" or 1 1/4.. Any body got ideas? And if I get it all together I'm gonna need help on the motor. Eddies is in driving distance and I'd love to put it all together and race you guys! I dont remember if we had green cans or just the Mura Pink, I think we might have had 25 single winds, but on my track which was down on power, a 27-28 double was the best. The 25 single often melted on the 50 lap runs we had. We shunted the brushes, but I dont think elephant ears were in use. I had a big block of aluminum made by Champion that I put on the motor to dissipate heat between rounds. A lot of this is foggy, as Ron Mura gave me motors, so I usually just ran what I got.

[draggon]

A question about qualifying, whats the plan? At S&L in the 60's it was 2 minutes, number of laps and track sections. That necessitated a qualifying motor and a race motor. When that track went to Oakland Speedway, it was balls out best of 2 laps. Since qualifying determined your choice of lanes, it was super important. A little story. At S&L the lanes were from the bottom., red, yellow ,white, pink, orange, green, blue, brown. If you got anything past orange, the huge bank made it almost impossible to win. I had a horrible qualifying atempt one night. No one ever took red or yellow because the 180 hairpins were a nightmare. I was faced with blue or brown, and no one ever won from there. I chose yellow. The huge difference in the the shortness of the big bank shot me into the lead. I won easlily. Yellow became my favorite lane, but after winning three weeks stragiht, the other guys got my number. Then I shifted into the red lane. I gotta say, no one ever won from the yellow, and to choose the red was nuts. But it worked for me. Soon after that all the hotshoes were going for the yellow and red lanes and my statistical advantage was lost.

[Jairus]

Is there an actual set in stone set of chassis rules yet?

Tony, this proxy is set to take place after the current one has run it's course, which it has not... yet.
The rules so far are not set in stone but thus far will most likely not change and are as few as possible due to this being about... Thingies!
1 Min clearance .055
2 Max width 3.25
3 To be run on two King tracks at B.P. and Eddies in the Bay area.
4 Technology and parts are limited to only that which was available prior to December 31 1970. That includes motors: "A" cans, "B" cans, "C" cans and "D" cans are all legal. Any wind you want!
If you feel you want to innovate and other entrants challenge your design.... be ready to prove your case regarding construction and parts. In other words, document your use of innovative design and or parts with articles out of one of the mags. This is suppose to be run in the "Spirit of the era". If innovation and total free thinking is your thing, stay with D3.
5 All four wheels should touch and roll.
6 In-line motor mounts only.
7 Any Thingie body is acceptable, but Choti "Aero bodies" will have a distinct advantage on the King with this race. All bodies used must be identifiable as "Thingie" and may be home made.
8 Limited to ceramic magnets only.

A question about qualifying, whats the plan?

Glenn, this is a proxy race. That means that you do not get to drive your car. Qualification is a 2 minute run that sets up and decides the mains.... if we have that many entrants. No need for qualification for 8 or less entrants.
How a proxy race is run.... is that each driver draws a lane at random and stays on that lane. Only the cars rotate after two minute heats with each driver operating each car at least once. Total number of laps wins. Track sections only required if two cars end up stopping on the same lap during the final heat.
Hope that answers your question.

Guys, this is just for fun. If you want to argue... this thread is the place, but I have taken part in quite a few of these races. This is the formula that seems to work.

[draggon]

Well thats no problem, just means I need to travel to test and set up. Thats a good thing, it will get me out of the house!

[One27ray]

Some more Choti's ??








I dubbed it : the Blue-winged Choti- of course the wings were stapled on

This was dubbed the Red-Deepdish Choti ?





kind of a cross-over design ? More fuel for the fire
Yes Bob, they are cool

i-ray

[tonyp]

This is suppose to be run in the "Spirit of the era". If innovation and total free thinking is your thing, stay with D3.

Thanks for the rude answer.

First I don't race D3, I run IRRA.

I thought this was such a great idea I wanted to participate and made sure cars I was making for Bob and myself would be 100 percent legal. I guess I'll find something else to do with my time.