475 replies to this topic

[MantaRay]

Oscar, I think I saw a picture of your new Mill..........

[Jairus]

Oscar, do you really think a 110g Retro Pro chassis is in the spirit of the thingie? I mean... honestly?

[slotbaker]

Original proposal back on page 1 was for inliners, and most seemed OK with that.


Retro Pro = ...........

[Jairus]

Steve, yeah... but I think Oscar is trying to make a point here and advocate for no chassis movement. Even he is not daft enough to try and pull what he is suggesting.

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Inline only is my vote, 3" wide. Spell out the motor this time so we know what can be used from the start.

BTW Jairus we have "Retro Pro" cars here with all the movements and 65-90 grams.

[The Bugman]

Oscar, do you really think a 110g Retro Pro chassis is in the spirit of the thingie? I mean... honestly?

Mr J. i dont wanna step on ANY TOES,but the WAVEMAKER,is nothing IN THE SPIRIT of Dynamic chassis,
AND YOU LET IT RUN ALL YEAR,
so if not a RETRO PRO then what about a straight up RETRO CAN-AM INLINE chassis,,
theyre "period correct"

[HarV Wallbanger III]

He built the chassis by the rules Oscar.... all it "had" to have was the Dynamic motor bracket. I see nothing wrong with that. All the scratch built Thingie chassis I saw were "O 2 lite" things that smoked the straghts and if they hit a wall...... O well.

[Jairus]

So Oscar, you are WANTING a huge long list of rules this time explaining what can and what cannot be done?
I have taken part in a number of these proxies during the last 5 years. I know what is vintage and what is not. There are always a few who try to push the boundaries, Steve was one of them this time... BUT he did follow the rules as they were written. I have no problem with that.
Frankly, I would not be happy placing a long list of parameters on chassis designs this time either.

[The Bugman]

So Oscar, you are WANTING a huge long list of rules this time explaining what can and what cannot be done?
I have taken part in a number of these proxies during the last 5 years. I know what is vintage and what is not. There are always a few who try to push the boundaries, Steve was one of them this time... BUT he did follow the rules as they were written. I have no problem with that.
Frankly, I would not be happy placing a long list of parameters on chassis designs this time either.

so then my question is,,,,will a CAN AM RETRO type INLINE CHASSIS be deemed legal for this,
with a pre-70 type motor,and some type of Thingy body ?

[Jairus]

I would be disappointed if you chose that route Oscar, but yes. It would be legal...
Rules state that all chassis and motors used be of the manufacture and technology known and used prior to 1970. As long as you can prove that the design is based on chassis tech from the specified era then it will be run.

[slotbaker]

There's that bloody can of worms again..

[stevefzr]

I just found this thread today. I read to page 4 then skipped to the end. I'll probably run a b can, but it sounds like I can run Champion arco (alnico) mags if I want, like those in the 517? In the early discussions it was ceramics only but that seems to have changed to allow anything available up to late 1970. Seeing as I don't race on glue tracks, can someone tell me what rubber I should run? Should I be looking at fish rubber of some sort? Do I have to run a rim with a flange on one side or can I just buy a set of wheels ready to go?

Thanks,

Steve C

[Jairus]

Steve C, the rules stipulate vintage parts only. But I am not going to get anal over an entry from someone not possessing the skills and tools to "glue and true". So, to that end, if you can find a set of modern rubber on aluminum rims, whatever the manufacture, then they will be allowed to run. As for rubber, I won't be asking the tracks to set down glue so use treated rubber and all entries will be cleaned and Zip-Grip applied prior to both races (unless the car owner has other instructions).

JK makes aluminum rims as do Alpha and Pro-Track.

[TSR]

Steve,
All the magnets prior to the cobalt stuff that came in 1978-1980 and that fit inside a 16D or C-can are ceramic, so as long as it is obvious that they are neither cobalt or Neodymium, you should not worry.
As far as the chassis design, since the rules say "inline only", why trying to use technology that was born after the angle-winder came in 1968? The ONLY technical innovation other than the drop arm (1962) that took place before the angle-winder chassis revolution was the invention of hinged body mounts in late 1967. Here is the very last of inline chassis technology, a February 1968 chassis by Terry Schmid, that shows what the most sophisticated inline chassis with respect for history should look like:



Anything beyond this technology is simply a lie to the spirit of the rules as I see it.
Two years ago I drove a car at the thingy proxy race that was really, really good, but that was little else than a modern Eurosport all the way to center-hinge and every bit of tech as shown on a laser-cut, computer-engineered chassis, only built using packs of steel wire soldered together. Very creative but really in my opinion, beyond what the rules called for and certainly far from being in the spirit of the rules.
However, it was by far, the best and fastest car on the track, proving absolutely nothing else than a need for certain technological limitations if you do not wish to have your thingy race turning into yet, another demonstration of evolved technology. Somehow I believe that to make it right, a chassis should use a Dynamic motor mount and a Dynamic guide tongue, as well as a simple limitation in hinges to a simple side floppy arrangement as seen on the chassis shown here.
My opinion only of course, I have no dogs in this fight.

[Jairus]

Philippe, Dynamic is the current proxy race. This year it's suppose to be a little more open with only the limitations of "Inline" with a nod toward the aerodynamic Choti bodies and fast tracks. The hopes were that builders would forgo modern this time out and seek more vintage solutions. But I understand what you are saying and believe you're on the right track. Hope others see the simplicity posted here in Dokk's first paragraph and thusly build accordingly.
This race, if any technology or chassis design is not vintage, it will not race!

[The Bugman]

So,,Mr J. you had mentioned you had a few years of proxy experience,
so will you show/ post a few photos of what a correct style "thingy" period correct chassis should look like,
i was chatting with Cukras today,,,,,,,,,,well and WE GOT SOME IDEAS for a chassis,,,
but would like to see a few to select a style "to build"
thx,,,

OM

[Jairus]

Oscar, besides the perfect example that Philippe posted, there have been literally hundreds of chassis pictures posted over the last few years of what was built prior to 1970 in the Thingie world. All one has to do is do a little digging. But, here are a few that I have built during the last few years. Each and every one is inspired by a vintage design or is a direct copy of a vintage chassis. Hope this helps everyone, because it's really not rocket science.

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Make a rule that all have to have a 1/16" "drop" front axle.... and 1/8" rear.....? I still think a max rolling chassis and body weight less motor????

Hey does anyone have a reprint of a Car Model Science (I think ) with a story inside and on the cover that says...."Build this Super light, Super fast Thingie" ???? Not sure of the mag but it must have been about 1967-68?

[stevefzr]

Steve C, the rules stipulate vintage parts only. But I am not going to get anal over an entry from someone not possessing the skills and tools to "glue and true". ....

Hi Jairus, I've got heaps of vintage rims, and I just bought a cross slide vice as used on milling machines just to make a godzilla tyre lathe. I just don't know if I can get decent doughnuts here, and what to get. The local (40mile away) glue track sells fish rubber doughnuts. Is that what you mean by treated tyres? Are they all about the same, or should I be looking for a particular brand and hardness, in which case i'll order a few pairs from one of the raceways over there. Can you recommend what doughnuts I should order?

Regards,

Steve C

[The Bugman]

MrJ.
thank you & Philippe very much,,,,,,those photos are exactly what i was wanting to see,,
now I WONT try to put a Retro chassis for a thingy,,,we will build a legit chassis,,
and seein as acquired a great Period correct motor thru the Mr Frank ,bids,,
i have a power plant too. .
1 last question,the THINGY bodies ,when decided what exactly they will be,,

are they available thru MANTA RAY,or like before for the Dynamic Proxy,
i ordered and bought a couple thru you too ?,,

[Jairus]

Barney, I really do not what to HAVE to write such specific rules like that. That's the main reason I built the Mule on this very thread (many pages ago now). But it seems few were paying attention.

Steve C, I pretty much exclusively use these for my proxy cars. JKP-D5 or JKP-D3 http://www.jkproduct...ucts.asp?cat=94
They are natural rubber and very sticky. The SBR above works great too if the natural rubber is too sticky and results in torn up tires. So order a couple sets of each and try them both on your track. That's pretty much what I did with my Mule, two sets of rubber for testing with-out glue.

Oscar, The body list is open. Use any body you want so long as it is a Thingie and does not represent any real 1/1 car. I don't care if it's, Shinoda, Choti, from Electric Dreams, TSR, Alpha or Plato's. BUT, this race is for fast cars! That means a heavy chassis with a neutral aero body will be lapped quickly. The builders in their right minds will be putting powerful motors in lightweight chassis with deep dish negative lift bodies almost exclusively Choti. All this was explained in the first 8 pages of this thread. I suggest you take the time and page back through it.

[Martin]

It seems to make sence to me that the devopement cut off year should be1968? As we all know 1968 was the last of the inlines that were used by the pros and by guys that ran Thingies acording to the printed articals of Thingie races in 1968, and nothiing printed after that to prove otherwise.
My qestion is if there were Thingies races after 68 was there anybody in the Thingie crowd that made angle winder Thingies?
It would be logical as we were all looking for speed, and yet I have never seen a angle winder Thingie, has anyone else out there?

[ravajack]

The picture above from one of Jairus' previous postings reminds me of this conversation some years ago...

YOU WONT BEAT ME WITH THAT THING :naughty: GUIDE TOUNGE IS OFF CENTER BY .006 THOU :doh:

Tore, what's a "tounge"?

Philippe, it's code. Probably something to do with the secret weapon.

YES,THATS CORRECT,STEUBE COULD FIGURE THAT OUT?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,TOUNGE :up: SEE P, YOU JUST LEARNED ANOTHER WORD ?

I am so thanksful.

thanksful :?

Tore, it goes with "tounge". You have to learn a new word everyday in this hobby.

Thanksfull is actually, just a slip of the Tounge.

He said tounge in cheak

Where's that speil chucker when you needs it most Eh!

So maybe the rules for the next thingie proxy should also stipulate the use of no more than one tounge...?

[Jairus]

It seems to make sence to me that the devopement cut off year should be1968? As we all know 1968 was the last of the inlines that were used by the pros and by guys that ran Thingies acording to the printed articals of Thingie races in 1968, and nothiing printed after that to prove otherwise.
My qestion is if there were Thingies races after 68 was there anybody in the Thingie crowd that made angle winder Thingies?
It would be logical as we were all looking for speed, and yet I have never seen a angle winder Thingie, has anyone else out there?

Martin, This is 2012 and we are still building and racing in-line thingies. Have since 1968, tho... not published in print. In fact, till the advent of the computer and internet most of us used to be doing it at home in the closet not knowing there were others like us. It was when I discovered the now defunct "Scratchbuilder" web site that I discovered others like me and we started finding each other on SlotForum.com.
For years now we simply pick a set of rules and build to that, trying to maintain interest, speed and durability. Because you see... most of the Proxies from the beginning ran 8 to 10 races. The one previous "The Sunchaser" went 14! During those races we have many entries that end up with melted endbells due to badly designed brush hardware. Those cars needed repairs to continue.
This race, I wanted to see how fast we could get the Thingie technology to go. To do that means a hotter motor and lower gear ratios which mean heat, that a Mabuchi end bell would faint over in only a few laps. So... that is why I went to 1970. Primarily because of the need for the better brush gear to avoid the melted endbell.

But then... nobody is restricted to 1970. You can built to 1968 if you want to.

Oh, by the way.. I will reiterate that for this 2-race proxy only, soon as a car breaks it is out of the race. This is a BALLS-OUT proxy where only the strong need enter. No crybabies (me included with lip quivering) allowed.

There WILL be t-shirts and of course bragging rights!

[Jairus]

And yet, the questions keep coming up.
Which means it is time once again to revisit the motors allowed in this proxy.
The cut off is 1970 to provide better brush hardware so the melted motor won't be a problem.


Mura A can motor. New during the golden age, (No idea when exactly) and was a staple of the 68 Proxies. Can be used with this brush hardware upgrade or Champion "Super-proofers". Or one could take B can hardware and retrofit it to the existing endbell by drilling new mounting holes.


Mura B can motor. New in 1969 and any can type is legal, round hole or square. No buss bars! Lead wires to tabs like the motor shown.




Mura C can motor. Introduced in 1970. Early motors used a cut down B can endbell (See pic) as no tooling yet for the then new smaller "Green" can. But any endbell from this era is allowed. This motor is allowed because it is fairly easy to find. Electric Dreams even sells NOS cans and endbells.
The two hole can was made from 1970 to '79 with little change other than a slot on one side for axle clearance in angle-winder installation. NO Bussbars allowed. So trim the plate to make a tab if need be.
Those not versed in motor building or modifying, a GP 12 tagged arm or GP 20 will service you very well if you get one of these.





Pretty much any of the Champion 517 and up motors are allowed. Though... I would recommend installation of "Super-proofer" hardware to isolate the endbell from heat.


Of course any Mabuchi motor prior to 1970 is legal. Any wind and any magnets as long as they are ceramic. Custom wound and built motors are legal as well. Shunt wires and cooling plates are likewise allowed.

Endbell drive or can drive are both legal. In-line only!

But a word on elephant ears. I put some copper ones on my Mule because they were vintage and of the right year. But Parma elephant ears didn't hit the market till later. So if you plan to use them, I suggest you cut'm down so they look home made. The technology was known in 1970 but not many manufacturers were making and selling them so as long as they look like you hacked them out... you are legal.