1275 replies to this topic

[Gator Bob]

Are there pictures of tri-pods in the old magazines?

[HarV Wallbanger III]

"everyone keeps pushing the barrier to D3."
"What we want to see is a simple single rail in-line design"

The bar keeps moving forward and I do not want to see it as well.

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Are there pictures of tri-pods in the old magazines?

Not that I have ever seen ....

[HarV Wallbanger III]

"I do find that 'we' pay for track time' un-Usual."
"Kind'a ...um...like.... an un-welcome feeling. The two tracks agree to host 'then' say 'pay to play' and tip the cabbie. "

No Bob Jairus was told this before.... and why should we take up hours of track time and not pay just $5.00 per entry for them having the track in the first place for us to play on???

Last I heard the other track was going to get a BBQ because they asked???

[HarV Wallbanger III]

"So Barney, are you saying that you want to lodge a formal "challenge" against Al's car then?"
" Do I need to spell it out for you? "

This is in the rules you wrote....

"What we want to see is a simple single rail in-line design....."

This is in the rules so Do I have to spell it out to you since you wrote them?

No challenge I'm not in this race. I'll run it down here at BPR is all I want to do with it. As I told you I'll pay for Hotdogs for all racers.

[Tim Neja]

c'mon Barn & Tim,.quit trying to be T*rds in the punch bowl,,,,Tims car is RETRO CAN-AM,
plain and simple,he's been BRAGGING SO MUCH (on the other blog)about how cool a retro ride it is,,,,
so there it is,ITS A RETRO,,,,,,,not a CHOTI,,,,
Tim ya wanna play,build A LEGAL CHOTI,not try to submit your CanAm retro,
real bush league Tim

Thats BS Oscar.. --- The car above looks EXACTLY like mine---with a change in front wheels!!! When I saw it--I simply asked if I CHANGED my wheels--would it be a legal style car? And Jariarus said NO!! --read the rules!! So why is ONE of them legal--and the other is NOT??> My car was built as a retro---TOTALLY different than any other retro car!! But its' design is JUST LIKE one that's being built as a CHOTI!! So what's the difference?? Wheels and a motor and body!!
I'm not going to enter--because I'm tired of this kind of two sided BS-- and I wasn't trying to challenge anything!! Just wanted to put a car in the race LIKE one that is ALREADY been approved okay! Then I get chastized for it!!?? Take a hike!! Your right--it's BS!!
T

[chief32s]

Hey Guys,

Let's not forget that this is supposed to be fun and light hearted. They are after all just toy cars. hehe.

Tim's chassis is similar to mine in the following respects...It has two parallel rails and two rails that taper inwards towards the rear and a sizeable chunk of brass up front. I wouldn't challenge it, but I wont be challenging anything as I am just starting out and know nowt. However, I can see that the motor is illegal. ( soz Tim. lol. )

I didn't realise my chassis design was of a 'type', but hey ho. It was just the right answer to my particular design problem. The design evolved from the basic Ugo chassis shown by Jairus at the top of this thread and is specifically designed to fit the body which was being designed at the same time. So, for you delectation here is the step by step evolution of my chassis.

Initially I was wanting to build as light as possible and create as much downforce from the aero shape of the body, in keeping with the spirit of this proxy. So I took the Ugo chassis as my start point. However, I wanted to give the front axle a little more support and so added two more rails to form a strong triangular shaped chassis...



Next, I began to think of ways I could transfer the downforce created (hopefully) by the front spoiler directly to the front of the chassis in an attempt to keep the guide in the slot, and so I decided to do away with the bent wire axle of the Ugo and instead use an axle tube on which the front of the body could bear down. I also thought that to save weight, the outer rails could double as axle tube supports...



Next I began to consider how the body attached to the chassis. Here the pin tubes are soldered on top of a hinge tube that wraps around the main rails...



Having discussed my chassis design in post 186 of this thread, I got a PM from my "Chassis Mentor" suggesting that the Ugo chassis would be light up front and I shouldn't rely on aero to keep the guide in the slot and instead should concentrate the weight just behind the guide and so taking his advice I decided to span the width of the chassis with a strip of brass centred on the front axle...



As I enjoy cutting brass, and curvy elegant shapes I decided to make more of the front brass work. Further refinements of the design also showed that I could use the centre rails to add support to the axle tube (previously I had imagined a length of square brass tubing running under the axle tube) and I was pleased with the economy of the design. Note, the pans design had changed at this point and unbeknownst to me was of the shaker/flexi type. I didn't realise that they were outlawed.



Finally I moved from pencil sketches to some 2D design software I have which allows me to correctly dimension everything and print off templates for cutting brass with my trusty piercing saw. At this stage I finallised the pans design with hinge tubes up front and alongside of the rear bracket. The pin tubes double as hinge wires and some piano wire reinforcment to the front hinge tubes doubles as an up-stop. Here is how the chassis looks as of today...



What can I say, If my chassis design is challenged then so be it. I haven't designed it to be 'Choti', 'Vintage', 'Retro', 'D3' or any other 'type', just to work well with my body and to stay on the track in the fast curves. As far as being period correct, well it has Kai wheels, Rehco rear bracket, Parma Crown (stained black), Jet Flag and 16D motor and if I had been a young lad walking out of that model shop in 1970 with a bag of goodies and worked through this same design process I believe I would have come up with the same answer.

BTW, I'm really pleased with the chassis, I've no idea how it'll run, It might turn out to be a real dog, but I love the economy of the design, and the pans make a very satisfying clunk when the hit the travel limit.

Hope you've enjoyed the read.

ATB

Al.

[Pablo]

I like it, Al

[Jencar17]

High quality artistic sketches, Al da Vinci!!! Thanks for the inspiration!!

[Tim Neja]

Read my question? IT says IF I change the wheels, motor, and put the correct body on it--would it be legal? I only asked that because it's design is nearly exactly as yours--and Jairus simply said "no"!! Ignoring Oscar's moronic outburst-- what's the difference? I saw other chassis being built with hinges--this one has none-- and it slight as you were looking for. I didn't understand what's different about it? Just because I built it for a "retro" class--doesn't mean it's not built like a Choti--- it's far closer to those 60's style chassis than many I've seen--by accident--but what makes it so "illegal" or "dangerous" for this Choti event? I could build another one like Oscar seems me to do--but it would be identical except for--Wheels, Motor, and body. Why does that not fit the minimalist rules that Jairus wanted?
T

[Tim Neja]

Well... I would have liked him to build the car with all vintage parts. But... some people have problems wrapping their heads around anything but what "Retro" has now become.
At any rate, I don't see the motor bracket as providing any advantage that can't be provided by a vintage bracket with appropriate bracing.
Do you Ray?

I used the motor bracket I had/-- so what's so wrong with this chassis Jairus? What's got your panties in a bunch?? I put vintage wheels on--vintage motor and body. Where's it SO wrong?

[chief32s]

Hey Tim, sorry, it seems my humour doesn't cross the atlantic. In the photo that you posted, the only thing I could see that broke the rules was the Falcon7 motor or is it TSR motor...either Either. Which is why I raised the issue. I was being ironic (i think).

Like I said, I wouldn't have challenged your entry.



Best Wishes.
Al

[Jairus]

Tim, how would you bolt in a 16D motor into that narrow D3 motor bracket? That is a serious question btw!

I have talked to Al and he wants to finish his car whether someone challenges his design or not.
Tim, you seem to be under the misguided idea that I approved Al's car as "vintage" when that is NOT the case.
I even asked him to make a few changes and he chooses to continue the course regardless if it is approved. (sign of a true artist)
Seems he doesn't care if it can be entered or not.
So.... I guess I will ask you the same questions Tim:
If you cut the front of the pans on your car off, swap the motor bracket for a vintage RehCo bracket and add a drop front axle along with the offered vintage wheels.
Yes, you can run it!

[Pablo]

Tim, if you want my opinion, this is what would have to happen to make it legal IAW the rules:

-The width of the chassis would have to be 3.0. (What is the current width ?)

-Wheels, flag, and flag nut would have to be vintage
-Crown gear would have to be dyed
-Pinion would have to be straight vice angled.
If that were done, I myself would have no protest for it. Assuming the motor meets the rules.

[endbelldrive]

Hey, I'm just happy people are talking about wire, brass and solder. OK...back to the discussion.

[The Bugman]

Tim, how would you bolt in a 16D motor into that narrow D3 motor bracket? That is a serious question btw!

I have talked to Al and he wants to finish his car whether someone challenges his design or not.
Tim, you seem to be under the misguided idea that I approved Al's car as "vintage" when that is NOT the case.
I even asked him to make a few changes and he chooses to continue the course regardless if it is approved. (sign of a true artist)
Seems he doesn't care if it can be entered or not.
So.... I guess I will ask you the same questions Tim:
If you cut the front of the pans on your car off, swap the motor bracket for a vintage RehCo bracket and add a drop front axle along with the offered vintage wheels.
Yes, you can run it!

AND,,,,,,,,,make it only 3" wide,not Retro 3.125",,,,,oh yeah dont forget those "vintage" 1/8" rear wheel
& 1/8 axle too,then i guess i'd apologize too

[Gator Bob]

IMO -

Tim,
I think it's the whole spirit thing, kinda like what D3 and SCCRA promote and enforce. A 3" wide jail door entry here probably wouldn't even raise an eyebrow.
Heck if this gig was run at my home track I would want to join this event too.
You have the needed builders skills, come join in the fun.
Please don't add to 'rules creep' and have others get all uptight. Just sayin....
Although many of the people entered here also run Retro it is a bit different over here in 'ThingyLand'. It is more of expression and fun vs. 'I gotta find 2 tenths' for the next big race.

I finished .... like ... 20th in the last proxy race but I think I had as much fun as anyone else, even the winner.

[Pablo]

Bugman needs to read Rule # 3

[Tim Neja]

I"m cool with the whole spirit of the thing!! Guess I should have read the rules closer---not to worry--just wanted a better explanation than "NO"!!?? It's fine--- I didn't understand the differences as there's nothing posted about changing the other car--and It looked like their even allowing "moving" pans etc. My car had none of that. I've got the materials to build one-- but think I'll leave it for the guys that seem to really care more for them. I'll crawl back under my rock!!!

[Pablo]

C'mon you have plenty of time....

[Jairus]

Back from the track after running about 40 laps.
Car seems a bit tipsy so cutting the rubber down from 5/8" wide to 1/2" and see if that helps. Plenty of traction however! Deslotted a few times when it shouldn't... so I am figuring a touch more nose weight couldn't hurt.
Motor is still getting warmer than I am conformable with so swapping to another lesser wind arm just for fun and see how that works next trip. But zapping the magnets before the race has to happen!
Night all...

[Pablo]

"Motor is still getting warmer than I am conformable with..."

Too bad we can't use the angled 6T pinions, that would make it run cooler.......just sayin'

[Gator Bob]

Are these legal?

[Jairus]

Not in Ohio, Nebraska or Wyoming Bob.

[Jencar17]

Where to get those practical pants?