1275 replies to this topic

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Why denote the old motor can but allow modern short stack arms? My 2 cents is the stack has to be .440" min.
It's up to you but if you want vintage looking.....

[Jairus]

That debate thread took place earlier Barn. This subject came up before and nobody said anything about stack length. Why are you bringing it up now? And what is the benefit of a short stack vs a long when the magnets are the limiting factor?


How many rules do we need anyway?

[havlicek]

Hey Barn, guys (me included) were removing lams from stacks since the jurassic period.

So... If I was to have a short stack (like x-12) arm rewound to say 26/26, that would be legal, in a green can???

If someone wanted to go through the tough job of stripping an epoxied arm that has already been balanced and might not be balanceable afterwards, more power to them. Like Jairus, I wouldn't see the point.

-john

[Jairus]

Or the guys who used to put 26D arms into a Mura "Shorty" A-can. I happen to know those lams are not as long as .440 and that was a fairly well known vintage trick.

[MantaRay]

same old crazy *** crap......... undetectable in a challenge.....................HOW ABOUT SPEC ARMS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LOL

[Ron Hershman]

same old crazy *** crap......... undetectable in a challenge.....................HOW ABOUT SPEC ARMS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LOL

Not a bad idea..... Group 20 arms for all.....LOL

[TSR]

Jairus,
In your opening post, you said:

(No Champion C-can motors allowed since those were not available until '72.)

While it is not too important because of very difficult availability today, this is historically incorrect. The Champion C-can motor was already marketed before the end of the 1970 year. In fact, Joel Montague was already marketing his Pooch motors by the time I first met him in his pad in Falls Curch, VA, in February 1971.
You might want to revise your rules to only allow Mura C-can motors as far as that motor size, for keeping things simpler, or you might have someone showing up with a Pooch and clean the place up, because at the time, they were faster!

[Matt Sheldon]

I could use a can and endbell if anyone has a spare (or whole motor).

[Gator Bob]

You are welcome and how many are you looking for..... I think the last of what I had may have went to Pablo...but I may have a "secret stash" somewhere around here

At this time I think you should join in the fun.

[Pablo]

Are we going to second-guess the posted rules to death, or are we going to build cars according to the exact rules as posted ?

You guys that wait until last minute in order to make everything go "your way", I am on to you. You did it in the Dynamic Challenge, and you are doing it again. Jairus posted very clear rules, that was the final word. If the rules change, I'm out. You will not do this to me again. That is a promise. I'll take my Choti and put it on a shelf.

Go ahead, keep playing back seat drivers, but I personally will not tolerate it. It is very childish of you, you know who you are.

[Gator Bob]

Guys, I just got back. barely. Engine overheated cause I need a new radiator and had to pull over and dump in a gallon of water and half gallon of antifreeze that I had, just for such an occasion.
Here it is about an hour ago about 17 miles out of Salem cooling down.

Weather was hot! But car ran flawlessly (other than the radiator)for the 240 miles I put on her today.

That wagon is so cool . . . even in this picture

[Jairus]

Figured you would jump in about that Philippe. Your history regarding exact release dates were a bit nebulous so I picked a date. But the truth was that the Green Can was first on the market and by the summer of 1970 the common kid could get one. Can the same be said of the Champion folded "C" can? Can the same be said of the Pooch motors? Because if that is the case... then they might be legal and I will modify the rules. But (please read my premise again) if those motors were not yet available in the slot shops for Any kid with cash to buy one... then they are not legal. Period Dot! The rules stand.


Edit: Before you answer Philippe. You had better be able to lay your hands on a bunch of Champion "C" can motors for the guys. Because last I looked (And I search Ebay daily for for the early versions) they are rare as hens teeth compared to the Mura Green Can. So if stirring up controversy is your game. Forget it, the rules stand.

[Rick]

Jairus,

Is that a '56 Chevy Chrome strip on that Ford Wagon?

[Jairus]

Rick, that's stock Ranch Wagon stainless.


Okay guys and gals. I worked every free moment today on my chassis. (no secrets here)
But... didn't get very far because I am building three chassis!
But, more about that later.
First off the chassis I built a while back I felt was too... Eurosport looking with it's totally perimeter frame and swept forward wings. NOT in the spirit of the era, so those come off.

I am also straightening out the frame rails parallel so the guide tongue can be wider and heavier putting the weight forward. This also provides more room for lead if some should be needed to keep the guild in the slot.
After testing of the mule turned out a bit of a bust handling wise, it was suggested that the nose weight and chassis up front needed to be lower. Much lower. So the guide tongues get a bend via the tool above.
The tongue bending (offset) tool is some thing R-Geo made up years ago. Mine is getting a little worn, but I love it and it's one of my favorite tools next to the jig and soldering iron. More updates as they happen.

[slotbaker]

Cool, thanks for sharing.
What was the total weight of your mule as tested?
Are you going lighter/heavier?

[TSR]

Edit: Before you answer Philippe. You had better be able to lay your hands on a bunch of Champion "C" can motors for the guys. Because last I looked (And I search Ebay daily for for the early versions) they are rare as hens teeth compared to the Mura Green Can. So if stirring up controversy is your game. Forget it, the rules stand.

Jairus,
As I suggested, you should BAN them, but for availability reasons, not for historical reasons!

[Pablo]

I'll admit, over the years I'm still totally confused with Mura A, B, C cans. I have stopped trying to figure it out.
Question: if my Mura can has the axle cutout notch, is it still legal ?

[slotbaker]

if my Mura can has the axle cutout notch, is it still legal ?

The Mura C-can (two-hole) motor was available then, but was devoid of buss bars. So... If your "Green Can" motor is a later version (rear axle cut-out can allowed) then cut the buss bars off to create tabs please!

I'm in the same boat Paul.
I've seen plenty of piccies that show the differences, but when I get them in my hands, I'm still not sure what I've got.
The hot motors of my day was the lumpy 26D, so I missed out on all this modern stuff.

[TSR]

Pablo:

Mura "A": same size as a Mabuchi or Parma 16D motor. Needs a full-contour shim for its magnets, except for GP-12 versions with the larger 26D armatures, for which Mura had special thinner but taller magnets made. The Mura "A" looks like a Mura C-can but is larger in every direction.

Mura "B": same general size as the Mura "A" but 1/16" lower and 1/32" wider. Magnets need no shim and are thicker (Versitec SS101 size).

Mura "C": a smaller "A" can in design, lower, narrower and shorter, that does not need a shim for its magnets that are of the same size as found in the "A". Champion Arco fit that can without a need for shims.
Mura nursed this can, that was introduced in 1970, until the mid 1990 using 3 different hole patterns (first round, then slotted, then pyramid shaped) and by 1972, a modified endbell tooling using a larger bushing. Flat buss bars as part of the hardware were introduced in 1972 and are not legal.
Only the first version of the Mura "C" can (2 round-hole pattern, no axle-clearance cut on the side and with endbell with the smaller bushing) appear to be legal for this event.

Mura "A" and "C" compared:



Mura "A":



Rarer Mura "A" with axle notch and full-contour magnet shim:



Mura "B" and its various can venting and hole patterns:









Mura "C" with axle notch and larger endbell bushing:





All above are legal according to the rules.

It's all a question of size. Also, no 1980s Parma endbells on Mura "A" cans please!

[Pablo]

And to complicate matters further, there was a lot of endbell / can / arm swapping going on back then.....

Jairus/dc-65x/PdL seem to have it all figured out, but as for the rest of us, well,

[TSR]

Paul, read the post above yours, I think I spelled it out clearly enough to hopefully help Jairus in his ruling and everyone else to figure it out?

[Jairus]

And because of that... any can with an axle notch is still legal. Just not the buss bars. Is that clear?

The justification is due to an article DC-65X posted of a Mura B mod where the builder cut away much of the can sides for lighter weight. I believe that article was during the 1970 year, but I could be wrong. Besides, it's easier to cut off buss bars than it is to require everyone to fill in the side of a motor can. (Not logical)

[Pablo]

Thanks Jairus, yes, that is very clear.

[Jairus]

Cool, thanks for sharing.
What was the total weight of your mule as tested?
Are you going lighter/heavier?

Sorry Steve, missed your question. The Mule as tested was 85g. I am not going for lighter weight as much as I am trying for lower CG in the next chassis design.

[slotbaker]