1275 replies to this topic

[Jairus]

Jaak, good to hear from you! Your name is added to the list. Before you build, read the rules and premis carefully so you understand. These are not the sleds of the years past proxies. This is a fueled by speed two-race only proxy. We can get back to the "sleds" next time. Edo was talking about a no-rules race on the Parma track and other like tracks and I think Steve Kempson mentioned doing a 36D only proxy so... maybe we can get the two ideas together during Christmas and schedule something for 2013.

Moving to France? A new kid and moving to another country... you are a glutton for punishment my friend.

[Rick]

Jairus, If I am reading correctly, the cars have to run two races as submitted.

Are the heats going to 3 minute heats?

Then the car must have .055 clearance for the second event. ( the start of)

One pair of tires only?

Will someone chime in and say which rubber is the usual choice at Eddies?

[Jairus]

Aren't most races two minute heats or three? I figure that these cars can run two races with their light weight with no noticeable tire wear. And YES, one pair of tires only. No maintenance between races, the cars are packed up and shipped to the next track.
I suggest JK natural rubber but then maybe someone will answer your question.

[tonyp]

Retro races are 3 minute heats, wing cars are 5. 3 is a good length.

[The Bugman]

i'd think just like the the Dynamic Proxy's 2 minute heats,,,would be good,,,
after all GUYS we cant do ANY maintenance to them,,,

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Good question Rick. Tire wear will be a factor Jairus with big motors..... I think 3 min heats is good.

[Jaak]

WARNING

Noob questions below...if you can not handle possible dumb questions look away or read on other posts pls.


Here goes:

No loose pin tubes.

I am not sure what you mean with loose as from what i understand these are loose*
*the two near the motor mount.



I want to build a similar chassis to this,
what i need to know is what thickness wire has been used, looking at the picture all are steel rods except the hollow pin tubes.
(correct me if i am wrong)

Also would appreciate if somebody can point me in the right direction for a proper period motor and a similar fitting motor mount.

Thanks in advance for any info and help.

[Gator Bob]

Jaak,
Loose pin tubes - Tubes that can float inside another tube or collar providing limited body movement in a "shaker" fashion.

Yes - steel piano wire. Size is builders choice.

[Jaak]

Thank you Bob,

Being a newbie i would have never figured that but now that you explain how and what i can see you can make a advantage with that.

Something for "new style builds" i should remember.


Any idea what a widely used size before i start ordering random sizes

[Jairus]

Jaak, the three most popular sizes are .062, .055 and .047. The chassis above was .062 with .055 outside rails I think. The chassis I just completed last week is actually .055 main rails with .047 outside rails. I did that for more flex and lighter weight.


I am building another version of this one with wire floppy pans. (If I can ever find the time to get back to the bench)

[chief32s]

I want to build a similar chassis to this,

Hey Jaak,

Glad to see you are thinking of entering this Proxy (you've had a busy time of it recently- "Pops").

The chassis I'm building is going to be similar to that one also, so any 'flex' is going to be whatever is natural in the steel rod/piano wire. The stuff I have at hand is 1/16th (0.062) so that's what it is getting built out of. Same as the main rails on the chassis above going by what J has just said, so I guess there will not be a great deal.

I've got some down time coming up soon, so hopefully I'll get that torch fired up then.

ATB
Al
(the other Newbie in the field)

[Jaak]

Hey Jairus,

Thanks a lot,
It is good to know what the common sizes used are before i order,
will get a few of each to get me sorted.(will look for a supplier now)

I will be paying entry fee no matter if i manage to enter in time or not,
still owe you (much)

P.S that 1:1 car looks fantastic, it has Jairus written all over it.
`

Heya Al,

Good to see you here mate.

When i get my move sorted i will be finishing my first Thingie body after i rebuild my vacform machine.
Partialy inspired by you too,(and Gene Deuce Ray Howmett etc,)

Will have a look if i can find a proper supplier to France for metal rods as i never had to buy them yet and the 1/16 - 0.062 etc confuse me
(Google will be my friend in the hunt)
Probably will get a few of all the sizes Jairus described

[chief32s]

Hey Jaak,

Its 1/16 of an inch of which the decimal is 0.0625. This equates to just under 1.6mm for you continental types hehe.

Hope that helps a little.
Al.

[Jaak]

Thanks Al,

It does yes

Did a Google on conversion rates also, just need to work on my French now to see if i can source stuff there.

[Matt Sheldon]

Ok so I aquired a nice bag of Jet Flags, now where can I find the sweet brass retainers with set screw?

[Jairus]

Hobby shop in the aircraft section with the label "Dubro" on the package. They are made for holding wheels on model aircraft and other such stuff. Made of brass, chrome plated with a bore of 3/8".

At least that is what I used here...

[boxerdog]

Jairus, do you really believe that one set of tires will still pass tech after the first 8 heats??? Just asking, it seems like a stretch but then I don't know either.

[Jairus]

David, are you on the list?
Anyway, yes I do think one set of tires can run two races. No reason not to since these cars will not be as heavy. I have run 2 and sometimes 3 races on one set of tires while running Flexi wing races. Those were 3 minute heats.
But, if you know better, then maybe we should raise the clearance limit and give more tread wear to the racers. Because I KNOW I don't want to service 35 cars between races!

[slotbaker]

Made of brass, chrome plated with a bore of 3/8".

3/8" Bore??
Maybe 3/8" OD, and 3/16" bore?
Dubro 3/16 ID on eBay

Jairus, Are the motor heatsinks in your post #191 acceptable?
I'm guessing they are if they are home made.

[Jairus]

Yeah Steve, thanks for that catch. 3/16" is the correct hole diameter.

Any heat sinks made prior to 1970 are legal of course. But if one chooses to use some Parma heat sinks then I insist you cut them up so they look hand made. In other words cut them down and sharpen the corners, but please just don't simply slap on a set of Parma heat sinks and SAY they are hand made. Of course... any hand made heat sinks are totally legal.

The sinks in post #191 were sold to me by "Old Certus" himself and he said they actually date to 1968, so yes, they are legal.

[chief32s]

Hey J,

Two quick questions...

No loose pin tubes.

Does this rule mean that I can't use the pin tubes as structural elements that span the chassis and connect to some skinny pans? It will after all be the pin tubes that rattle around in their housings? I just thought this might be a way to double up on their utility whilst keeping the weight down.

Also, I'm looking for some thin (in cross section) fronts, that are legal...any pointers towards suppliers? And would the fronts in the chassis you posted (below) be legal this time around?



ATB
Al

Edit: Further to Q1, can I use the pin tube tubing to form a pan hinge?

[Jairus]

Al, everything I posted as examples are legal. Wheels too.
The wheels shown above are repops by Edo's friend Kai. To my knowledge he no longer makes them, but they're still legal because they represent vintage wheels.

There is no restriction on front wheels as long as they are vintage. Plenty of members here have pin-hole front wheels in their parts boxes so ask. Lots show up on ebay each week as well. These are not pinhole fronts but they are vintage Riggens. And there is no rule that says you HAVE to use pinhole front wheels. Of course, with a Dynamic reducer in the center, one could turn any threaded fronts into pinhole fronts. Found these, treaded again, on Professor motor.

Not sure of any current manufacturer of vintage wheels today...

"Loose pin tube definition", is where the tubing is held in place inside a larger tubing by a flared keeper. This allows the tubing to rattle and move side to side and by connection to the body, give the body a rattle and shaker movement. They are almost exclusive used during the last 15 to 20 years in wing racing and retro racing and were never used back in 1970.

But a pin tube used as structural member is legal. A pin tube used as a frame member is legal.
A pin tube used as a hinge pivot is legal because all of these techniques were vintage applications.
Anything used back in the day is legal to use in this race with-in the current rule structure.

[boxerdog]

Yes, Jairus, I am on the list. And I don't know for a fact that tires won't last 2 races; I am just guessing that the possibility exists. (Inline cars+lots of power+unknown track conditions) I can appreciate the fact that nobody wants to service a bunch of cars, but I know that stuff happens. Maybe allowing 1 set of backup tires to be included could be an option? Setting the tech height up for the first race might also be a good option. It's your call, I'm just askin'!!

[Jairus]

Yeah, well this is why I suggest we all build a car and do some testing and that includes checking the tire rubber after running 200 laps. If the wear is significant then we might have to use either of those options David.

But Barney and Oscar, you guys should have no worries. I was thinking of a late summer race in August to allow builders plenty of time to build and test to get it right before mailing the cars to the track. By that time we should have an idea of tire wear.
Track conditions will probably be the same as they are today, to say that they will be dirty and used with some left over glue present. And all entries will be subject to the same track surface so that concern is fairly moot to my mind.

I gotta go to work today so will answer questions later.

[chief32s]

Many thanks J, that helps a lot. I think I have my chassis worked out bar slight mods that might come to mind during the build. Sorry for the inexperienced questions, but as I was only 3 years old in 1970 and have only started building chassis recently I don't have any 'background' so to speak. I have spent a lot of time on the various chassis build sites, but often the inexperienced eye misses the significant (yet subtle) detail and its import. hehe. So all assistance is welcomed.

RE the fronts. My design pretty much necessitates pin hole wheels, so that is the way I intend to go. I thought that those wheels were Kai's, are the rears his also? Blacklight has a full set of Kai wheels on and they are very nice indeed. Shame he no longer makes them. (BTW, are his rear wheels legal also)?

Thanks again
Al.