209 replies to this topic

[Zippity]

 

A photo electric cell (bar code reader) is embedded into each lane.

 

Sure beats the hell out of dead strips, power fluctuations, poor braid contact etc

 

If and when they fail, it is normally due to a bit of dust or rubber gunk.

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[Samiam]

Those sensors are used on the Drag Strip at SAL. Only a problem when someone shows up with a non opaque guide.Easy fix.

 

Not sure how difficult/expensive it would be to convert to this system. But I'm sure some smart American can figure it out. 

[Zippity]

Agreed - that is why we all race with black guide flags

[John Streisguth]

Usually the input module is different. I know with Trackmate (what SAL uses) you need to specify if it is for dead strip counting.

[Gator Bob]

FWIW .. I have been testing them .. evils and demons ..  in C/A cars and I can tell you they are no 'giant killer' about a tenth off my PD motors... about the same as a TSR-D3.

 

 

 

The above statement has zero relevance as it does not pertain to any newly introduced 65 turn motor from Trinity.

[MSwiss]

Last time I looked at our track, it was the guide flag (has to be a black one) that triggered the lap counter.
 
We don't experience any issues with missed laps, regardless of what motor we race, but we live in the 21st Century out here in New Zealand  

  

 
A photo electric cell (bar code reader) is embedded into each lane.
 
Sure beats the hell out of dead strips, power fluctuations, poor braid contact etc
 
If and when they fail, it is normally due to a bit of dust or rubber gunk.

A bit of dust can make them fail?

That sounds like the 19th century, not the 21st.lol

[Zippity]

   A bit of dust can make them fail?

That sounds like the 19th century, not the 21st.lol

 

 

Heifer dust knows no boundaries  

[Rob Voska]

Ever heard of root cause problem solving?  25-100 puppy dog motors (read $1250-$5000 + $hipping & rebuild$) to get an "equal" one...... and your still not happy.  FK style motors vary to much, PD's vary to much.  You guys cause your own problems.

 

Man up and order an X12 from Koford or PS for $65 & make yourself a simple wire choke.  That way everyone has more than enough motor and slow / dud / no availability, motor argument would be a thing of the past.  No sending in for a rebuild, no stickers, no 25-100 dud motors in your box & a few simple rules like .518 + - .002 arms, 38 deg timing +-2.0, .535 max air gap, single ceramic .500 long mags.  End of not enough motor argument.

 

That way you can get back to buying the body of the week and scratch building your kit cars because all the speed is in the chassis remember..............

[Samiam]

Rob,

 

 It will never happen.Retro is not supposed to be a motor war.There are plenty of other classes to build motors.I don't like the FK style motors but the rules are the rules and I understand the premise. It's not perfect.What IS? I applaud the BoDs decision to source other motors. 

 

And if you must have more power there is always Retro Pro.

 

 So race what you like and like what you race.

 

Slot-On______________ 

[John Streisguth]

Amen to that...

[Rob Voska]

Uh..... guys..... hate the break the news but just read the past 6 pages or most any other post on this forum or ask the guys with 25+ PD motors & believe it or not..... if you pull you head out of the sand ........ you got "a motor war". 

Only way to eliminate the problem is to...... I'll........ type.......... this........... slowly.......... so......... you.......... get......... it......... is........ to........ over power....... the....... cars.  No more motor bitching.

[Dominator]

We are not trying to turn retro's into Eurosports.

[Samiam]

Now who's "bitchin'"?

[John Streisguth]

Funny how retro racing probably has the biggest fields at the most races being held these days. Maybe these guys are on the right track? 

 

I won't even bother to type this slowly....if you don't like the motor program in retro racing, go find another sandbox to play in and leave ours alone.

[Gator Bob]

Rob, you make a very good 'motor war' point but it may be .... Too logical.

 

The Atomic Dog could be the answer to chase the FK Cats.  

[Fast Freddie]

I'm at a loss as to why the current 4002 Chinese motor is relegated to Stock Car duty when it is a inexpensive alternative to the $50+ PD motor yet nearly equal in performance. It would be a great addition to the Cam Am and F1 racing for those on a budget and willing to take the risk of a motor cook off. When it was a motor with 80 turns of wire it was legal in a class where it couldn't come close to competing and now it has the balls and a fair chance of winning and it's not allowed in the class because it's an inexpensive motor. If you don't believe that read back through some of the post on other threads where the idea of a PD motor getting beat by a 4002C was tabooed solely because of the price difference.

John
Your response in the above post is exactly what I've heard over the years and the reason why Retro hasn't grown even bigger. The idea that someone may question a certain area of Retro invokes a response that "if you don't like it then go race somewhere else". If I had listened to that absurd response IRRA RETRO would still have the same person in charge of motor tech. However, since I'm so hard headed and refused to give up on the idea of shining a light on an unequal playing field after 6 years steps where finally taken to cure the problem and I was totally vindicated. One other thing. I have NEVER EVER heard that statement from ANY OTHER slot car racing organization. Not the USRA racers, ISRA racers or anyone one else. It seems to be the only way IRRA racers can deflect suggested changes in the motor program. Agreeing with the status quo just to get along and not upset the apple cart is not in a racers nature. Questioning why something is, why can't we change it, and can we make it better, is. Look at the chassis evolution over the years. Why has the motor program remained stagnate?

[Rick]

Fred, the Asian PD wasn't outlawed because of price, it was solely because it was out of spec. Had the revision been brought to 75 turns, instead of 60, the motor might have been legal across the board. The issue was that after several years and everyone having American PD motors, to obsolete them would have been suicide for retro. The Asian arm is like comparing a Group 12 to a Challenger...............

[W. J. Dougherty]

Fred,  love you as a brother from another mother, but you are the one that doesn't get it this time.  Bottom line, the IRRA officials don't care what you and others think about their motor choice(s).  They are perfectly happy running their PD motors.  They are not about to add anything into the mix that will jeopardize obsoleting their Puppy Dog motors.  Most folks that race PDs already have way too much money invested in these motors for them to be thrown in a drawer if something new was to come out.  This horse is DEAD and its TENDERIZED way beyond what it ever should have been.  You've made your views quite clear over the YEARS.  You have also voted your feelings by deciding not to play in IRRA races. 

 

Now is the time to let it go...    

[MSwiss]

Well said, Bill.

Thanks

[Tim Neja]

Hey there's LOT'S of arguments about what should be done--and YES--there's a motor war if you let a LOT of different motors into the mix!! It gets MUCH simpler if you limit the choices and then just LIVE with that decision!! It's IMPOSSIBLE to make EVERYONE happy all the time no matter what you do!!  But the simple fact is Retro Racing is the best slot racing we've had in the last 10 years and it continues to have a strong following!! YES---FK motors are junk--but so are ALL our little electric motors.  The BEST think about FK's--they are cheap and they HAVE to be replaced after a couple of races!! Therefore--NO ONE gains a MOTOR competitive advantage for very long!! They ALL have to go back to get a fresh motor every couple of races.  It's FAIR---and EVERYONE gets to do it!! That's why retro in the west has continued to stay strong!! Do I LOVE these little motors--HELL NO!! But I've raced nearly every class except open wing cars--and it's STILL the most economical fun I've had ---and ALL the class's at some point DO become motor wars!!! This one just forces everyone to shuffle their motors more often which I think is  a GOOD thing!!   But if you LIKE building motors and chasing arms--there's PLENTY of class's of racing out there to do that in!! Retro is best left alone to continue in the path that started all this good fun and growth!!

[Gator Bob]

If there are other variables like wire size then how or why has 65 turns become the minimum spec?

 

Shouldn't it be min./max. resistance, stack dimensions, timing ... etc?

[Tim Neja]

If there are other variables like wire size then how or why has 65 turns become the minimum spec?

 

Shouldn't it be min./max. resistance, stack dimensions, timing ... etc?

In order to get a "CHEAP" motor--you can only ask for SO much quality control!!

[Gator Bob]

Tim ... spec .. not QC.

 

I say consistent ... Mike says 'exactly'

I say Spec ... Tim says 'QC'

 

Do I speak Chinese?

[MSwiss]

If there are other variables like wire size then how or why has 65 turns become the minimum spec?
 
Shouldn't it be min./max. resistance, stack dimensions, timing ... etc?

A manufacturer who is serious in making a motor needs to invest $12 in a F7 and have his vendor disect it
and come up with something close.

That'll give them the best chance of being approved.

[Rick]

I have to digress a little here to you Tim. When you guys race in the handout situation, IIRC, you are permitted to buy 5 motors for the event? At $12 each, some are spending $60 to race one event, which to me is not that frugal. I understand you can use them up in practice and "other" races, but that's a lot to use up. Appearances up front don't always reflect the reality of a situation. This horse about which is better has been beat to death and back with no agreement to what is the best way. It would impossible to make identical performing motors of ANY kind, if this were true then I would be rich because everyong would but their motors from me, because I know the lightning in the bottle trick..LOL

 

Voska has a solution that has been brought up before by over powering the cars to the point, the motors are never in question. Really would be valid too, except the races would be just horrible crash fests for all but the very elite racer.................