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Arm winding #2


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#76 SlotStox#53

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 08:59 AM

Neat! Sounds like the biggest little thing to happen in slot cars for a good while John,as you have been saying and proving with your fabulous winding & experimenting with these motors :)




#77 havlicek

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:27 AM

I believe these are basically (with some minor variations) the same as the PS version Paul.  The motor-nerds can correct me about that, but they're just little C-cans with very thin/light/strong ceramic magnets.  I also believe the white endbell will clear the larger coms with no mods, but key here is the com upgrade. 

 

-john


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#78 SlotStox#53

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:31 AM

Good to know, will grab a few of the hawk & PS motors to experiment with :)

Where's the best place to get better coms John? Does Bugenis still do them?

#79 havlicek

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:47 AM

You'll have to look around Paul, as the manufacturers don't sell these things like they did in the '60's.  With a guy like Bill, it depends on how much inventory he has.  I can tell you that if you get some of the older coms off Muras and invest the elbow grease to salvage them, those are good quality coms.  Mura used to sell coms and blanks new to me, but I don't even know if they're in business anymore and haven't seen them around.  I can't even come up with their website now.  Sometimes you can get lucky at the places that sell NOS stuff and they'll have a bag of coms or something.  Don't bother with the Tradeship coms that ARE still around.  They're only good for very mild "period" type rewinds.

 

-john


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#80 SlotStox#53

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 10:19 AM

Thanks for the warning/info on the tradeship coms , have seen them around. Got a 26d blank from tradeship with their com , looks kind of "ok" so can see it being for very mild period winds.

Funny you mention mura coms John, was thinking it easiest to grab some second hand mura arms and either strip & rewind them, or stockpile the coms..

Thanks again for the advice :)

#81 Gator Bob

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:47 AM

John, That lil' Hawk looks very nice!

 

I have the motor to send you, I'm waiting on the BBs ... then it all will be coming your way. Skipping out on the Alum. end bell for this go around.


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#82 havlicek

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:57 AM

Hi Bob,

 

     Great.  I haven't got back yours and Paul's arm from balancing yet, but it should be any day now.  I'm glad you're not pursuing the aluminum end bell, seems like a waste for what's going on here.  Strange thing on this #26 is that, upon tearing it apart, it reads that there's a short somewhere (continuity between the shaft and the coils), but meters fine and runs like heck.  Anyway, if this 26 runs this well, a #23 should be frightening :)

 

-john


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#83 Champion 507

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:52 PM

I've used some of Bill's comms on some #24 wire Hawk 6s I built for drags and they work great. It's scary how fast those arms spin up, especially on a 16 volt drag strip and never had one of Bill's comms grenade. Good product from a good guy!


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#84 havlicek

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

Hmmm...looks like I'll be dipping my toes in the (vintage) HO-scale waters pretty soon.  If I don't come back before 2014, please send out a search and rescue team:

http://www.modelency...d=49&PageNum=40

 

-john
 


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#85 SlotStox#53

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 08:29 PM

Are you crazy?! :laugh2: Good luck & we will keep an eye out for you John ! :D Very interesting reading that article , using 36D lams for the hopped up HO arm !

Look forward to seeing your work in small scale mills :D :good:



#86 havlicek

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:29 AM

Yeah Paul, aside from figuring out how the arm goes together and all, we're talking about a LOT of turns of awfully skinny wire.  I have no idea how I'll keep track without losing count...much less keep the coils neat.  Usually after 4 layers, neatness starts to go downhill pretty fast, and 200 turns of #35 is going to be a heckuva lot more than 4 layers.

 

-john


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#87 Marty N

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:08 AM

Eventually every great mind goes down the rabbit hole. (LOL) I was riveted to those old rags. Nice find John and quite a project. You WILL master that as well and likely "one up" it.
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#88 Mr. M

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:45 PM

I remember back in the 80s that at least for 27s that hemi winding patterns were in vogue. What is this and what difference does it make in how the coils work?
Chris McCarty

#89 havlicek

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 04:16 AM

Hemis are just one of many winding patterns.  If a spec calls for a certain number of turns of a given diameter/gauge wire, there is still room to meet that spec and "do your own thing" without breaking any rules.  With a "hemi", the wire doesn't pass over the top of the coil at the beginning or the end of the wind...so you save a little wire, but it also produces a slightly different coil just because of how things work out.  A hemi should have a little less resistance than a "regular" wind of the same number of turns, but the hemi's wire ends are a little more "exposed", so a bit more care needs to be taken in buttoning things up when finishing the arm.

 

-john


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#90 sidejobjon

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 05:29 PM

Yeah Paul, aside from figuring out how the arm goes together and all, we're talking about a LOT of turns of awfully skinny wire.  I have no idea how I'll keep track without losing count...much less keep the coils neat.  Usually after 4 layers, neatness starts to go downhill pretty fast, and 200 turns of #35 is going to be a heckuva lot more than 4 layers.
 
-john

John,
Don't get me in trouble again, Last time I got in trouble I had Noose paint some HO body's. LOL said he was going blind. You are a master I read some other articles on Winding HO instead of counting they measure wire for each arm to get same ohms? Did Arms arrive?
Thanks SJJ
John Falzarano

#91 havlicek

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 07:48 PM

Hi John,

 

     They didn't arrive yet, but since we're so close I assume they'll be here tomorrow.  I'm gearing up for some shows this weekend, so I won't be able to dig in until next week.  I will check everything out a little though to get a handle on what's going on for sure.

 

 

 

You are a master I read some other articles on Winding HO instead of counting they measure wire for each arm to get same ohms? Did Arms arrive?

 

     Thanks...I try. :)  The counting turns vs length of wire debate has gone on for a long time (probably since rewinding became "a thing").  For regular-sized arms and the average wind, there's no doubt in my mind that counting turns and planning out a wind pattern (ie: throwing out wire after trying some stuff) is a much better way to go.  The rub *might* come in when you're talking about so many turns (200) and keeping a consistent pattern.  We'll see!

 

-john


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#92 havlicek

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:32 PM

OK, your arms came today John.  First thing I noticed is that the stock arms have what appears to be two .014" lams and we're supposed to be using three Mabuchi 36D lams...hmmm.  I won't know for sure what's going on until I take one of the little buggers apart, but there's precious little space between the bottom of the stock coils and the end of the "tail-spacer".  On the com side, the commutator sits ON the top of the coils, so there's no space there at all.  In other words, there doesn't appear to be any "extra" space at all to make the stack longer.  Again, I'll measure everything and see what's what once I take stuff apart.

 

-john


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#93 sidejobjon

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 04:21 PM

John,

I am sure this is another debate , Three lams more metal ,for magnet to bite? Like the Famous 4 lam Super two Arm.

If you need more let me know. Have fun

Thanks Again for taking on project

SJJ


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#94 havlicek

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 07:36 PM

 

 

I am sure this is another debate , Three lams more metal ,for magnet to bite?

 

For sure, but the more lams, the more to get spinning (a bit longer spin-up).  Anyway, I just want to be sure the arms will fit the motor since I have no complete motor to test the arm with.  Anywho...looks like it will be a fun project!...tedious, but fun!

 

-john


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#95 sidejobjon

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 02:16 PM

John ,

Here`s a 5 lam Arm. Sometimes you need to grind the Chassis to fit.

Thanks John F

 

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#96 havlicek

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:17 AM

Okey dokey John!

 

-john


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#97 havlicek

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:55 AM

Little progress.  I got the arm built and that in itself was a pretty finicky deal right there.  I didn't see any mention in the article about insulating the stack (must have missed it???), so I powder coated it.  The main thing I wanted to see was if my 36D clamp would work on a stack only three laminations tall (uncoated stack length 3 x .014"= total stack length of around .042"  :shok:  ).  Doing 200 turns of #35 wire by just holding the stack in my hand was NOT going to happen :)  Anyway, after assembling the little guy, drilling out the lams, epoxying them to the itty bitty shaft and then powder coating them, the stack clamped up just fine.  Those LaGanke clamps were really machined beautifully!  I did have trouble with the shaft being "out" on the first arm I took apart, but the second is nice and straight.  I did a little test winding the first pole,  and keeping the coils neat as possible is going to be quite difficult.  I'll do the best I can, but these coils are definitely NOT going to be super-clean/parrellel like a regular thicker-wire coil!

 

-john


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John Havlicek

#98 sidejobjon

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:14 AM

Little progress.  I got the arm built and that in itself was a pretty finicky deal right there.  I didn't see any mention in the article about insulating the stack (must have missed it???), so I powder coated it.  The main thing I wanted to see was if my 36D clamp would work on a stack only three laminations tall (uncoated stack length 3 x .014"= total stack length of around .042"  :shok:  ).  Doing 200 turns of #35 wire by just holding the stack in my hand was NOT going to happen :)  Anyway, after assembling the little guy, drilling out the lams, epoxying them to the itty bitty shaft and then powder coating them, the stack clamped up just fine.  Those LaGanke clamps were really machined beautifully!  I did have trouble with the shaft being "out" on the first arm I took apart, but the second is nice and straight.  I did a little test winding the first pole,  and keeping the coils neat as possible is going to be quite difficult.  I'll do the best I can, but these coils are definitely NOT going to be super-clean/parrellel like a regular thicker-wire coil!

 

-john

 

Little progress.  I did a little test winding the first pole,  and keeping the coils neat as possible is going to be quite difficult.  I'll do the best I can, but these coils are definitely NOT going to be super-clean/parrellel like a regular thicker-wire coil!

 

-john

John,

I saw your work, when you say best you can i can`t wait to see it . Let me know if you need anything? How many OHMS was the first pole?

Thanks John F


John Falzarano

#99 SlotStox#53

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:13 PM

Sounds like you are working your magic John , just this time a weee bit smaller ! :shok: Can't wait to see the results :D



#100 proptop

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:55 PM

Happy B-Day John! Keep on windin'...(or maybe "The Long and Winding Road"... :) )


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