108 replies to this topic

[Ricky Vegas]

As a rookie who has only two Retro race events under his belt and who loves Retro racing even with just the small taste of it I've had, I just want to thank you guys for sharing this info to cut back on the learning curve and accelerate the "having big fun" curve!

[Pablo]

This is better than body clip movement for you, JC?

[John C Martin]

I quit with clips in Retro cars. The clips are still good with the tweaking to loosen them up... but I like the way the pins stay with the body.

 

Also like all the side flex.. The movement side to side is a spring-loaded feel as it centers again after every turn.

 

I ran this method at Peachtree City; wasn't bad was it?

[Joe Mig]

I like to mount the body to the chassis before I paint it.

Another thing I do is to cut up a new or used body and use it for templates, like exhaust pipes ,engine bay, windshield, and so on. It works great and saves lots of time.

 

You could get creative when doing bodies.

[Pablo]

I ran this method at Peachtree City; wasn't bad was it?

 
I reckon not, JC. Thanks for the info.  
 
But I still love body clips, especially for F1s - where lateral space is at a premium.

[Fast Freddie]

John,

 

Is the E6000 the craft version?

 

Have you tried any other clear contact glue like Shoe Goo or Zap-A-Dap which I have. The Zap stuff is suppose to stick to any surface. I plan on trying it.

 

I never heard of the Tenacious Tape. Thanks for the tip.

[John C Martin]

Yeah, Fred, it's in the Walmart store craft section. I like the multipack in the smaller tubes. That other stuff should work.

 

For the tape, for quick tear repairs in a race better have small strips cut with the backing pulled up some as it's very hard to peel it off quickly.

[Fast Freddie]

John
Seems like the only way to get the tape is online, at least I haven't been able to locate it locally. It looks like it's mostly in sporting goods stores, maybe I'll try Bass Pros.

[John C Martin]

Cabella's or REI or Amazon.

[Cap Henry]

This may seem silly, but working on others cars and marshaling lately, I've noticed lots of guides not returning to center. Your guide should always center, with the body on. I see ALOT of people set their guides to return straight only to mount the body against it and cause it not to center.

 

Also, true your tires. Fronts and Rear. I'd say 95% of the tires on the market come oversized and out of round slightly LOL The out of round isn't going to ruin your car, but it's not going to help either. If nothing else, just a slight scuff on your truer to get both tires (front or rear) the same size and round. Also, if you reuse tires after another race, true them again. Especially plastic hubs, they deform and go out of round. 

[James Grandi]

A consideration for both chassis builders and for the racer who purchases from a builder. Something I've been encountering lately when building chassis, always check the diameter of the front axle, particularly where the front hubs ride.

I build using 3/32 piano wire, but I've had batches of wire come in that were slightly oversize, dead on, and lately slightly undersized. Having an undersized front axle by a couple thousandths will allow the fronts to wobble, and this can manifest itself in problems with the chassis twitching at times and in extreme cases, the front tires can wear uneven and cause tipping. Leading to de-slots and lost laps.

[Half Fast]

How to ruin spring tension on FK motors which will ruin braking, basically any overheating such as:

 

1- Too much heat soldering on wires

 

2-Too much heat soldering on pinion.

 

3- Too tight gear mesh

 

Also you can ruin a motor by spinning a crown gear and "butterflying" the comm.

 

 

 

Cheers

[James Grandi]

I thought this might be helpful. I saw some cars at the Retro East race Saturday having issues either with braid contact or unpredictable handling. I decided to make a visual representation of the method I use to set guide height/ride height.

The first picture is of a chassis with a cut-down guide, no spacers for visual affect, in the .035 recess slot, finger pressing down on top of the guide post. Notice how the rear tires are up with the air, and the front tires act as a pivot point. Under braking, the weight shifts to the front of the car and without the guide at the correct height, the nose will want to dive and the rear lift, giving the impression of a very loose car.

The second picture is the same chassis with a full thickness guide, spaced correctly in the same .035 recess slot, finger pressing down on the guide post. The rear tires here are sitting on the block, as are the fronts, and the braids are making contact while flat. My ( brief ) experience so far tells me that the braids on a retro car should be as flat as possible, there should be no need for the braids to be fluffed up in order to make electrical contact. When I take my finger off the guide post, the chassis sits with both front and rear tires making contact with the block.


I've observed some cars that have the height set so that the front wheels are not touching at all, and I think this has adverse handling affects as well, it seems to make the car want to tip/roll over out of the slot. When I first started running retro cars, this was by far the most helpful thing I was taught in regards to setting up a stable, easy to drive car. Hopefully others find this useful too

[Tex]

I believe ALL retro rules specify that all 4 wheels have to be touching the tech block without interference from the guide/braid. It's possible to get a false impression of a car if there is no depression for the guide/braid to sit down in on the tech block so as not to interfere with the car's stance; if there is no such depression and the guide/braid is sitting flat on the tech block, it could/would raise the fronts off the block. Such a car may actually be legal when placed on a tech block with a depression for the guide/braid to sit down in.

[John C Martin]

There's that fine line. Not enough guide spacers= burnt braid and car will sometimes push out in the turns or on tracks with wavy surfaces deslots in the straights because the fronts are into the track to much.
To many spacers = the car tipping in the corners.
I just watch the car in the corners ,and overdrive it to see how the car comes out . Because older tracks every lane can be different,as the braid is sometimes higher in the corners. Add a spacer or take out a spacer. Then I look for a tire that makes the car a little looser, or adding weight to the rear. always a challenge when you travel to older tracks to race.. OH that fine line...FUN HUH ?

[NSwanberg]

The track can be smooth, The braid can be rough. The track can be rough. The braid can be smooth. An older track is likely to be inconsistent across each lane. A track with lots of rental car time on it is likely going to be beat to death on the high lanes. Each track and lane is going to be different. Some like the car to be heavy on the front wheels. Some will like it heavier on the braid. You just have to get there early and test and tune. If your car seems to be running better with smaller rear tires you might have started to heavy on the guide or you might not have enough guide tongue angle. All this changes as the track rubbbers up. You can start out with a rule of thumb setup but be willing to adjust for the car, track and conditions. Try and prep your braid consistently and start with fresh braid so your starting baseline is the same. I like Prime braid. I brush it with a welder's brush 3 times on the track side, 3 times on the back side and then 3 more times on the track side before installing it in the guide. Being right with the guide spacing setup and being off is a complicated adjustment. Throw in front tire hardness and now you have another issue to deal with. A car that is forgiving and slides is usually better than one that pushes out of the slot giude first. I  guess this is all part of the fun!

[John C Martin]

Good post Nelson..to me I'm hung up on those ARP fronts..( sweet ).
IMO a softer front is digging in the glue with the back tires trying to push the car forward ( jack knifing effect ).
Just as a wonder rubber gets up on top of the glue better on the back ...same applies to the fronts..
the hardest and most important setup on Retro cars are the fronts in connection w/ guide IMO.
Brian :
You can visually see the difference in the doughnut w/ the ARP ..thanks

[Brian Cochrane]

Another thing that drastically changes the way your chassis works is the width of your front axle uprights.I personally like them not to wide.I am friends with Arp and we went with hard rubber on the plastic front wheels.We also went with a large diameter wheel to decrease side wall for more firmness.All for faster corner and bank speed.....

[Half Fast]

I thought this might be helpful. I saw some cars at the Retro East race Saturday having issues either with braid contact or unpredictable handling. I decided to make a visual representation of the method I use to set guide height/ride height.

The first picture is of a chassis with a cut-down guide, no spacers for visual affect, in the .035 recess slot, finger pressing down on top of the guide post. Notice how the rear tires are up with the air, and the front tires act as a pivot point. Under braking, the weight shifts to the front of the car and without the guide at the correct height, the nose will want to dive and the rear lift, giving the impression of a very loose car.image.jpg

The second picture is the same chassis with a full thickness guide, spaced correctly in the same .035 recess slot, finger pressing down on the guide post. The rear tires here are sitting on the block, as are the fronts, and the braids are making contact while flat. My ( brief ) experience so far tells me that the braids on a retro car should be as flat as possible, there should be no need for the braids to be fluffed up in order to make electrical contact. When I take my finger off the guide post, the chassis sits with both front and rear tires making contact with the block.
image.jpg

I've observed some cars that have the height set so that the front wheels are not touching at all, and I think this has adverse handling affects as well, it seems to make the car want to tip/roll over out of the slot. When I first started running retro cars, this was by far the most helpful thing I was taught in regards to setting up a stable, easy to drive car. Hopefully others find this useful too

 

At the RE race at HVR my F1 car had too few spacers and it chattered on the straight and would speed up and slow down randomly to my great detriment. All due to intermittent contact. it had too much lift at the back but the fronts were planted.

 

I think a small amount of lift, say 1/16 or less, is OK that way the guide is not so low as to ride up where the braid depth varies as I don't think the listed depths are consistent across all lanes and at different spots on the track.

 

Thanks to Brian C and James G for helping me with guide height issues.

 

Cheers

[James Grandi]

A bit of room to compensate for varying depths and wavy track surfaces on older tracks isn't a bad thing to have - the tracks we race on in Retro East are generally in very good condition, so I have less concern for that as opposed to racing on tracks that are infinitely older. My front end setup is much different when I race on the Sovereign aka Purple Mile at Modelville in Ashland, Mass. That track has all the character of that nature and as such, I adjust the setup to compensate.

One thing I will say is that regardless of personal setup choices/preferences, it is likely a bad idea to have a front end that requires braid to be lifted/fluffed. Time and time again we see the results of a slightly skewed braid courtesy of a wreck, that results in a launch in the bank or erratic handling behavior. I find it much easier to trust my car and my instincts when I have a setup that is easy to "fix" in the event of an incident

[Brian Cochrane]

On my Can Am car at HVR Saturday,I had the guide spaced about 20 thou to high and my braids cut to short. After the first heat I took a look at my braids and they were fanned out so far that they were patially riding on the top of the track and not in the track braid recess.The car was cutting out,I thought the motor was blowing. Before the race started I cut the braid a little shorter to help keep the nose more planted. When I realized the guide wasn't low enough during the race,all I could do was bend it down.......I'm just not thinking straight lately 

[James Grandi]

If you ever need a hand at one of the RE races, and this goes out to anyone else too, I'm happy to help anyone try and troubleshoot car issues if I can. I'm not the best by any means, but I think I'm decent and have a fair understanding - enough that my cars tend to be pretty good when it comes to staying in the slot

[Brian Cochrane]

Wow James, Thank you for that ! I've always considered you a decent guy. I might just take that offer! Thank you for all the advice and help......Xpro

[Cap Henry]

I've never had any luck shortening braids in retro, seems to make them springy and more prone to the guide nosing out.

I set my guide height like James, except I never do it on a block, only on the track. I also check it in a couple different places. I usually like to see the rear tires just barely have light show under them when you press down on the guide

[MSwiss]

I've never had any luck shortening braids in retro, 

Agreed.

 

It seems to me, with any kind of relatively low downforce car,(short of a GTP or a Wing), you have less traction/the car seems less planted/less consistent.

 

I don't have any idea why.