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Changes to Stock Car?


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#26 John C Martin

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:16 PM

Sounds like a cool class J.C.
 
Because I like Stock Cars ..... I'm likin' the sound of an 'Outlaw' class.
Southern style.
 
Body -
As approved - new models as added.
Windows - side cut out -  optional 
Cut wheel wells - original wheelbase centerline only. 
Roof height rule
1/2 Rear spoiler - optional
Tail panel - cutout to 1/8" edge
Flag/clips may show - must be black - no wire showing.
 
Tires -
No change - (nice full wheel wells)
 
Chassis -
3" wide - pans/rails/body mounting
3 1/8" total (bead hub)
up to 1" guide lead
Ride height .015/.040
 
Motors -
Add PS/PD and 4002FK

.
Nice Bob !!
Noose I can make a brick work as many can ..but it's harder to bring some people to this class with what's here now..




#27 Samiam

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:43 PM

OK,

I took back my 2 cents.


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#28 Noose

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:48 PM

Well if you go with Bob's idea for PDs I got a great deal for you on some.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#29 John C Martin

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:57 PM

Well if you go with Bob's idea for PDs I got a great deal for you on some.

Right me to ..and I don't fish either ,,( sinkers )
At least you guys can put them inside snowballs and throw them...we just throw them without the snow...ouch..

#30 Bud Greene

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 04:21 PM

Hey Jc maybe just a lighter body and cut fenders would make a world of difference or how about adding a Flexi class like Gtp or 4inch nascar. Just about everyone has a stamped steel chassis in there box

#31 Danny Zona

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 04:23 PM

I've saved all my puppy dogs and blueprinted them. Just in case I run in non IRRA events. Ha-ha-ha... I kid, I kid.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
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#32 Brinkley47

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 05:31 PM

I think we just need more races here JC. Rules are good. Just not enough races here to keep people's interest in the retro scene. I would run FCR if that was popular. With the lack of tracks in our area, racing has about died here. But it looks like that is going to change this winter. Looking forward to it.

I say we make it 5.5 inch stock cars with .900 tires. The worse handling the better for me. Bring the driver back into it for those of us who can't build their way out of a paper sack.
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#33 slotcarone

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 06:22 PM

John no matter what you do with the rules there will always be racers complaining their car doesn't handle and there will always be the few that make their cars work well and win most of the races. IMO changing the rules slightly will not get you anymore entries. The rules are not the problem.


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#34 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:23 PM

I tend to agree with Mike the rules are not the problem. I also agree the look of the cars is a problem. Outlaw the Daytona and the Talladega, (Nascar did). Then try to bring some scale appearance into the class. The cars should be painted to look the part of a stock car rather than just shoot the grill and everything in some color. More bodies would be nice but I don't know what is being produced. I don't like the idea of smaller tires as the proportion to the body is not correct. If you want to lower the chassis without changing the tire size I could see that. I even like Mike's idea of one inch or 7/8 tires.

 

Now if you want to create a new class modeled after short track Saturday night racing in the 60"s that could be very cool. 

 

I say this having not built a stock car yet, so take it for what it is worth.


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#35 John C Martin

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:21 PM

That's correct Eddie what is needed is cool ...would be too..
Thanks for the discussion pros and cons..Let's hear more from the south.It's ours to loose or change..what'll it be ?
I just want the BoD..to be open minded to the fact it could be better ,,,but their not..kinda like Mt. Rushmore, Old guys that won't budge..L and LOLs....
Maybe Not that everything I spoke of should be done but some can be done,,
I just threw everything out there..
There's going to be some to disagree with any change, that's fine ,I'd race them to with 29-30 entry's no problem, anything..Happy Happy Happy..
4 1/2 flexie was at one time the class of choice,,.that will maybe happen again..IF...
WILL your right we will have 3 -4 local tracks real soon,,very good tracks with nearly all new racers..It's up to the experienced to bring the new-be's along..to what ever class's..easier the better...best looking the better..Or it will be 4 1/2 flexie or worse FCR. Bricks..
Mike we have to find the answer and Quick..

#36 Pablo

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:44 PM

I just want the BoD..to be open minded to the fact it could be better ,,,

JC, I hope you know IRRA isn't going to change their rules just because attendance is low in certain areas.

There are very good and specific reasons why they made the rules the way they did.

The only way this could work for you is like DZ's idea - a completely different non-IRRA class.

 

As far as your ideas go, I'm all for it.  My personal tastes are like yours, lowered wider bodies, no windows, wider widths, smaller wheels, no weight rules, etc. I'd love to build a car like that.  Might as well make them anglewinders, too :D   But this is an IRRA forum and you might want to think about starting a new thread, or moving this existing one (Greg would have to do that for you), here:

http://slotblog.net/...2-retro-racing/

 

By doing so, it would not only allow, but encourage input from racers from other regions other than just Retro South.


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#37 Gator Bob

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:47 PM

It's not the rules.

 

It's probably not the set up.

 

It's what you and the people at your track find fun. Stock Car, S/C Plus, Outlaw ... whatever... works at your track or region.

 

I 'throw'd out' what I think would be a cool car and just might try one like it for that reason alone. Cut the body, widen the wheels, easy. 

 

I'm Free   :D   


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#38 John C Martin

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 09:12 PM

Right again Gator. And I did make 3 cars so far. The owner in Columbia loved them...as has everyone else..
65 and 67 chevelles and a charger and a Fairlane will follow..talk about sweet handling!! And realistic Sat. Night at the fairgrounds cars..drivers net,,exhaust out the fenders,,detailed 3d interior. Floor shift..(what). That can be seen ( no windows ) No noose but best I can do....handles as good as any nats.winning 4 1/2 flexie cars I ever won with in pro classes!!
Try it you'll see..
PS Barto F1 axle makes it a easy switch with the front wheels..Not 15 thou. But closer than 50 thou.clearance.

#39 John C Martin

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 07:18 AM

I love you Pablo,,not completely different class ,just modifying just like antique car tags 20 years or older here.The new racing crowds are younger than most of us ,,the Retro years could change to what is somewhat recognizeable to them ?
Let's face it the major majority of retro racers are us old kids. just look at pictures or the guy next to you..New-be's coming on haven't even seen a Talladega or Daytona ,,it's only in Our memories..
Minor changes : cut the fender wells ,still run 812 tires front and rear,this will not allow a slammed body,,No chopped top bodies,,no spoilers added . windowless except windshield, lower front to 15 thou.,weight stays at 120 grams..
2nd stage : widen the wheel base to whatever. Plus 1st change
3rd stage : 790 tires front , 812 or 790 rear at maybe 40 thou. Rear clearance..plus 1st and 2nd stages
I'm for any of this..
Retro south guys what'll it be? Old saying is do you use it or loose it..?

#40 John C Martin

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 07:34 AM

I think we just need more races here JC. Rules are good. Just not enough races here to keep people's interest in the retro scene. I would run FCR if that was popular. With the lack of tracks in our area, racing has about died here. But it looks like that is going to change this winter. Looking forward to it.
I say we make it 5.5 inch stock cars with .900 tires. The worse handling the better for me. Bring the driver back into it for those of us who can't build their way out of a paper sack.


Will you and me may be the only ones there. Not good for the raceway..
I'm a firm believer if the car is easier to drive there will be more racers..

#41 Danny Zona

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 07:51 AM

I do agree with JC and the younger racers not being able to identify with the bodies. They like retro cars. They like how chassis are scratch built, motor rules, etc. Everything about it except the bodies. I've heard a few say its not cool to use a body my great grandpa raced. Maybe something my grandpa or dad raced. I'm not saying Im against it. Just what I've heard.
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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Luck is the residue of design.

Be a fountain not a drain.

It's not about being right, it's getting it right.

#42 SlowBeas

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 09:09 AM

I'm a firm believer if the car is easier to drive there will be more racers..

 

Bingo.

 

While I would not believe it necessary to change IRRA rules, creation of your own non-IRRA class with your specs is a great idea. The only way to draw in a younger crowd is to ensure the cars will handle. We all know stock cars are the most difficult to run on a track, and much of it is due to their lack of cornering ability.

 

If a newbie spends more time putting his car back in the slot than he does driving, the fun dies quickly. Plain and simple. They can enjoy a similar sensation sitting at home on the couch playing a NASCAR game that doesn't require such effort. (Laziness, maybe?)

 

Anyway, JC, I generally support your idea of creating your own class. I might even try to build a car to those specs and give it a try in Abbeville soon.

 

Best,

jb


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#43 Noose

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:07 AM

I would suggest you run a NASCAR Flexi Class since if easy is what you want for these, there won't be an easy to drive scratchbuilt Stick Car.


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Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
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"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#44 MSwiss

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:31 AM

John,
However you think you can attract new racers, you should go for it, but honestly, I don't see $200 Retro cars as the ticket.

I'll be happy to be corrected, but has Retro ever attracted new slot racers?

It seems more like existing guys whose local wing or flexi program has died off, or if it hasn't, they just like the idea of Retro.
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#45 ejgehrken

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:52 AM

Imo, a spec JK Cheetah 21 class is the best way to attract new racers. They can buy an RTR car that's race ready and very easy to drive.


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#46 John C Martin

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 01:01 PM

My final choice would be.
Cut fender wells ,, 3 1/4 " width ,,812 tires front and rear,,,15 thou. Clearance in front ..my latest body to do this morning was a OS 652 chevelle,,it's a wider body., tires barely extend past body less than 3/8" front and rear..with a full bumper front and rear!!! .except for front plate area. This body is IRRA legal, door lines are legal ..except fenders wells are opened up..
But who cares?

Swiss 200 dollar cars? my last and best stockcar cost much less than that...hasn't been beat yet..it's a Cap Henry tri-pod. Clone from James merriman's viper pit winner...
Slot blog has cars everyday far less than that also ! Great builders also!
All my cars are built by the best builders. None were close to $200.. ( Tony Ps,,CHRs,,GVPs,, Jim Fowlers,,Pablo's ,,merriman 's,,Josh crutchfield's ,,Dennis K.
You must be thinking of cars with $52 PDs ( we don't do that anymore thanks to JK..)
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#47 Tim Neja

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 01:28 PM

Someone mentioned a "start up" class!  That could be easily accomplished with flexi chassis and Retro Hawk or Falcon motors.  Pick your tire size and go for it! Paint them like REAL cars and it's going to be a great handling cheap start up class.  Then your "move up" class could be retro scratch built cars!  That would add your "builder" types that enjoy that. Just a thought!! Anything to grow your racing is good!!  Have fun with it and create some fun!!! :)
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#48 MSwiss

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 02:16 PM

If the chassis is $100, the whole car adds up to if not $200, close, especially if you get a painted body.

Anyway $175 or $200, isn't $65 for a flexi-car.

Also, if anyone has an example of a guy whose first race was Retro, I'd like to see it.

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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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#49 MSwiss

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 02:19 PM

PS-and quoting that long list of top chassis builders?

I think you're out of touch what some of them charge for chassis.

Among others, Tony P won't roll out of bed for $100, let alone plug in his soldering iron.Lol

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#50 John C Martin

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:05 PM

I would suggest you run a NASCAR Flexi Class since if easy is what you want for these, there won't be an easy to drive scratchbuilt Stick Car.

My stockcar is very easy to drive as it is.. With the simple changes I listed. I think it's as good as a 4 1/2 flexie.
My 4 1/2" flexie's won at least 3 nats in the pro division ..so that says a lot for my Stockcars . Thanks to CHR ,,Pablo and GVP..





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