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Changes to Stock Car?


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#51 Pat Skeggs

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:06 PM

If I had to change anything I would bring the stock back into Stock cars.Every car would be the same except the body's.Same chassis,same gears 9/29 ex,same tires,same motor.I think it would be Cheeper for us and the race would be closer.Being that said,Stock cars are still the best cars to drive in the Retro East.




#52 MSwiss

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:12 PM

Pat,
What you're describing is FCR's.

A popular class back when you could buy them.

Mike Swiss
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Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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#53 Noose

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:23 PM

Pat, Port Jeff runs FCR frames with Hawk Retros and the current Stock Car bodies on a weekly basis.  They even run them on the King.

 

FWIW, the top cars at this past weekend's race were all geared the same (8/28) and weighed around 140 grams.  The bodies were pretty much all the same too.

 

All had Hawk Retros in them too. 


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#54 Jay Guard

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:30 PM

I think there's a middle ground that could work well for everyone.  This would involve a few minor changes to the existing IRRA rules which would improve the handling and appearance of the Stock Cars as follows...

 

#1.  Allow only 1968 or older body styles, this would eliminate the "aero bodies" like the Talladega and the awful slab-sided Daytona.  There are plenty of other existing bodies that with very minor changes by the manufacturers could be made legal to the below listed changes.

 

#2.  Allow and strictly enforce true .010" thick bodies.  At the same time require the manufacturers to put an indicator ( for example a "B") somewhere in a durable place on the body as an easily verifiable "manufacturers certificate" that the body was in fact produced using the correct thickness material.  This sounds difficult but I have spoken to the top body manufacturer and he assures me it's no big deal and in fact is done on their R/C bodies.

 

#3.  Require fender cut lines, hopefully ones that will allow tire clearance without getting too extreme.  The existing lower door lines and bumper requirements are just fine.  These requirements can be be enforced as they are now when the body is submitted for acceptance to the IRRA BoD.

 

#4.  Allow front and rear track (i.e. width at the axle) to be 3.125", this would improve handling and be no problem if the fenders were allowed to be cut out larger as per suggestion #3 above.

 

#5.  Allow .790" front tires and .040" front clearance.  This would improve handling and provide a bit more tire clearance, both good things and would not require any material changes to the chassis.  

 

These suggestions are minor changes that can be implemented say a year from now which would give ample time for existing bodies to be used up and would require no material changes to the existing chassis'.

 

The IRRA board has consistently said "No" to any changes in the Stock Car class citing local (Retro East) attendance figures to indicate that there is no problem to be fixed.  I say why not endeavor to improve the class and increase attendance?  It may just increase attendance in all regions, not just the South.   

 

Wild Card Idea...

  I like the suggestion that would require larger ( .845"?) rear tires because you could use worn out Stock Car tires for Can-Am and then F-1.  This concept has worked well for F-1 so why not take it a step further?  Unfortunately this would actually increase the rear clearance on existing cars which could have a slight negative effect on handling.  The existing chassis could of course be modified but as new chassis are made they could be made to give .050" clearance with the bigger tires.


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#55 Noose

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:43 PM

Jay:

 

1: So you would eliminate the Cyclone too?  The Torino was back poured from that.

 

2. One body manufacturer does not pull anything but the required .015 bodies that meet the .010 side thickness requirements.  If there are others out there then in tech they should get bounced and told to go tape up the whole inside of both sides until they pass.  Happens a lot in other classes too.  And ther eis one manufacturer that does make a Can-Am body in .007 which can't pass the .010 top side measurement.

 

3. Why do you guys feel they don't handle well enough?  What are you expecting them to run like like? A Can-Am?  Use lead, It's your friend. 

 

4. And the BoD did not say no based on the Retro East attendance.  I said I would not be for it because I saw no reason for the changes. 

 

5. Someone one put money up then to get a body made and submitted.


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#56 John C Martin

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 04:04 PM

PS-and quoting that long list of top chassis builders?
I think you're out of touch what some of them charge for chassis.
Among others, Tony P won't roll out of bed for $100, let alone plug in his soldering iron.Lol

I've had 6 tony P canams all were his personal race cars,,2 were raced 4 were not. At the viper pit race they were. $ 100 dollars a piece with body's minus motors..a great deal and I know it..He was already out of bed I guess? They were not the ones you buy at a certain raceway either ,all different..great cars...Highest priced car I bought was $175 stockcar from GVP, RTR
I would not spend $200 for any slot car..nor should any one..maybe your adding your raceway cost to the going prices??
Anyone can Ask what whatever they want..I'm not out of touch ,that's a joke ..L of LOL s..that's funny..
Must be that gold solder they're using on yours ...

#57 John C Martin

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 04:16 PM

Noose my best 2 Stockcars are 121 and 122 grams. And they handle great ,don't they JAY...What's this 140 gram stuff. WOW..This a king track ??
Sorry but yous guys need help with your setups..or something..that's terrible..LOLs
JAY that's exactly what I'm preaching..to deaf ears!

#58 MSwiss

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 04:18 PM

John,
I guess I'll have to think a little harder with my feeble track owner, paying rent every month, brain, how a used Retro car bought on Slotblog or at a race is a great beginner car for the raceway, especially when the beginner knocks the pan off, and the guy he bought it from is in a different state.
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Mike Swiss
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#59 MSwiss

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 04:23 PM

Noose my best 2 Stockcars are 121 and 122 grams. And they handle great ,don't they JAY...What's this 140 gram stuff. WOW..This a king track ??
Sorry but yous guys need help with your setups..or something..that's terrible..LOLs
JAY that's exactly what I'm preaching..to deaf ears!

Your 120g car handles so great?

Then why do the rules need to be changed?

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#60 John C Martin

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 04:35 PM

Now you caught on. A beginner should buy from slot blog ..( from the best builders )
Most all listed at better than $200 are new..MY tony Ps 2 were raced 1st at viper pit, 4 were only practiced once at viper pit..not PCH cars..
Thanks again Tony P..
Believe me mike I don't need any help..but I do not believe in intimidating lets say lesser cars or drivers either. And I don't like bragging either. Tired of saying it to deaf ears but this would help them more than me ...

#61 MSwiss

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 04:39 PM

A beginner should buy a JK car from their raceway, just like Eric G suggested.
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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#62 Brinkley47

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 04:56 PM

Would anyone be interested in a winter series in tennessee?
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#63 John C Martin

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:12 PM

Yes I would. !!! 4 great tracks in Tenn. No over night races... I'm in heaven..or dreaming. .let's do it before I wake up..
Let 's make it so..and get the guys together to vote on these changes! At the races ..they show they have a vote at any race they attend by years end..Or PM me...
Sound good?

#64 wicked01

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 06:47 PM

I am in definitely......... :good:


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#65 stemmy

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 07:07 PM

I've had 6 tony P canams all were his personal race cars,,2 were raced 4 were not. At the viper pit race they were. $ 100 dollars a piece with body's minus motors..a great deal and I know it..He was already out of bed I guess? They were not the ones you buy at a certain raceway either ,all different..great cars...Highest priced car I bought was $175 stockcar from GVP, RTR
I would not spend $200 for any slot car..nor should any one..maybe your adding your raceway cost to the going prices??
Anyone can Ask what whatever they want..I'm not out of touch ,that's a joke ..L of LOL s..that's funny..
Must be that gold solder they're using on yours ...

lol. I just bid on a canam chassis tony listed on ebay. I placed a $100 bid and the reserve was not meant. Lol
Blair Stem

#66 John C Martin

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 08:49 PM

I know stemmy. Tony and I have some mobility problems ,,I helped getting his cars back on in practice..I liked him ,still do..seems like a very nice guy so I helped him at February. 2012 Race viper pit and again in 2013..id'd do it again too..and I was just getting into Retro...so he was nice enough to give me a deal all 3 cars he built for each of those races..after each race..and they are jewels as all his cars are.... He 's the man everyone needs a Tony P car ..I'm sure someday to be a collectors item...

#67 slotcarone

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:28 PM

I have a suggestion John--why not just create a set of rules that suits whatever the locals want to race. Don't bother starting with the IRRA rules and then making changes--that doesn't make sense. Not being a wise guy just suggesting what sounds to me like a good idea.


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#68 Rick

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:47 PM

I think one thing you will find, running them at .015 front or .050, will make no change in laps times..........


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#69 John C Martin

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:56 AM

Mike the chassis rules are good ,But they can be a little better..just the body rules need the most updating ..IMO. they're are some who don't like the cars as they are now..
Like has been mentioned we don't have a population of millions to draw attendance from as you guys do..You're lucky in that sense,,but I wouldn't live there for anything,,I hate cold and I hate city life...If I were all you guys I run and run quick from there..
I'd sooner be hit by an FCR (or bus) than live up north again..
I lived in Detroit and Chicago growing up some I know what it was like ..
But they're aren't that many tracks here ,but that seems to be changing ..I'm going to do all I can to help them I think IMO this class can improve by this...
All that's needed for simple update is a cut down guide, a Bud Barto F1 axle to space on the inside of wheel or out side., easy to go back and forth if needed..depending on which rules you want to run,,
790 fronts or stay with 812s.doesn't really matter to me which..front clearance I'd like lowered..
May or may not make a difference like Rick said lap times may be the same,,but I think you may run more laps..( center of gravity thing ) science.. To top heavy ( you know like an FCR )
Oh yes don't forget to cut the fenders out maybe the option to remove side windows as well..on a new 10. Thou body..thats not a Daytona ..

#70 Rick

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:06 AM

John, I tried to have them allow the wheel wells to be cut out after the Daytona was approved. NEGATIVE! LOL But I do agree with them being cut out and tires out to 3 1/4", would make them look like a short track car and much more appealing to a real race fan. Not to mention handle better. MMW runs a stock car similar to this on their oval and get a good car count and they are really fast. They look so kool! ........should have also said no faster and no more laps. LOL


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#71 Tom Harrington

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 12:57 PM

I live in the same town as JC ( he lives on the rich side) which I hope meets Pablo's geographical prerequisite,  and race at the same tracks as he does. I disagree with him on this and have told him so. The IRRA stock car rules are just fine as they are. The cars are more difficult to tune and drive compared to a Can Am car but so were the real ones.  JC is very passionate about racing slot car stock cars and has been very successful having won numerous USRA and AMSRA National Championships in 4 1/2 stock car. He typically TQ's and wins when racing IRRA stock cars around here. So he doesn't need rule changes to be competitive although he does need to keep buying fast cars from his builders because he can't solder a lick. JC needs to start up, and take ownership of, whatever stock car class that he thinks will increase participation and bring in new racers.

This is not really an IRRA rules issue. Quit beating the horse and go for it JC! On a related note, I was looking forward to running the stock car class at the Fall Brawl this year and getting to see how it's done. In the hotbed of IRRA stock car racing, why no race?  


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#72 Noose

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:33 PM

Tom more of a scheduling issue.  They  expect a pretty large field and want to get each day done in a reasonable amount of time.  The best day to have run it would have been on Saturday to get the most participation but with a big F1 crowd expected it would go really late and mess up the annual bench party.


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#73 MSwiss

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:37 PM

Great post by Tom.

I only agree with Rick that the cars would look good with cut-out wheelwells if they had big tires.

That's why I applaud Brian Meharry for the great job he's doing locally promoting hardbody racing.

1" tires only.

No model car bodies on a stock FCR.
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#74 Rick

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:52 PM

When the stock car class was in creation state I was lobbying for .850 tires front and rear to make them more scale appearing. DENIED! LOL  It also does not offend me to see a guide sticking out from under the body, nature of the beast. BUT.

 

The SC are different kind of drive, I think they handle pretty well as they are.

 

An outlaw rogue class by JC, sure, go for it, if it will bring in more racers to your events. Sounds like Tenn is getting more tracks and could easily start up a series there....


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#75 MSwiss

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 02:14 PM

I wanted 1", 7/8" minimum.

Also DENIED. Lol
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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