219 replies to this topic

[Steve Deiters]

Before we get lost in the nomenclature of why or if manufacturers are producing "illegal bodies" it should be noted that a manufacturer can produce a body of any thickness they please as well as a raceway/racers having the right to buy them.
 
That being said... if you are entering race under the IRRA^® banner then it is incumbent on the racer that the body on the car conforms to the rules. Even the casual observer can tell when these "trick" bodies have made an appearance at the track just by marshaling them once.
 
At the end of the day it is the obligation of the racer to have a car that conforms to the rules. Those racers looking to exploit a loophole that now appears to be filled or to game the system please leave the "trick" bodies at home and if that is not acceptable then don't bother coming to the race. At the end of the day you just wind up ruining it for the rest of us. Having a strong competitive spirit and desire to win is great, but it does have its limits and this is one of them.

[Bill from NH]

Well said, Steve!  

[Pappy]

Does anyone know if .007" bodies are approved in the other RETRO organization?

[Half Fast]

Well, excuse me!

 

It's all the racers fault when they buy a body clearly marked .010" and it's thinner than that? 

 

Give me a break. Get off your self-righteous high horse.

 

Strong letter to follow!

[John Streisguth]

Bill:  I don't think that's the point he's making.. JK has both 010 and 007 bodies available, but only the 010 ones are approved.  I agree, if it's marked 010 but obviously made from thinner material, that's a manufacturer issue.  Could be as simple as the wrong body in the package.

 

Butch: According to what I have been reading, the "other org" does not have a minimum thickness, and in fact special thin bodies have been pulled upon request.  

 

IMO, the new rules address these issues well. 

[Duffy]

it should be noted that a manufacturer can produce a body of any thickness they please as well as a raceway/racers having the right to buy them.

 
"CAN," sure - but then it's a different product. If Campbell's "pleases," they can start filling their chicken soup cans with gazpacho. Now, two things might happen: (1) we'll learn, probably, to suspect Campbell's chicken soup cans, and (2) some consumer or government body is gonna raise the issue. I'm saying this to provide context for the next post -
 

It's all the racers fault when they buy a body clearly marked .010" and it's thinner than that?

 
Addressing the question realistically: - no. Not all the racers' fault. The whole point of this discussion and its locked predecessor is to put the issue squarely in front of us racers, who've maybe been aware, maybe not, or juuuust maybe have known about it and have gone along because it's not been decisively dealt with.
 
Whatever, that was then / this is now. Frustration during any time of change is natural, but holding on to the frustration too long after the change is made isn't a real healthy or productive use of energy.

[kvanpelt]

I've been called many things in my 58 years here on earth, instigator will now be added to the list? 

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

Well, excuse me!

 

It's all the racers fault when they buy a body clearly marked .010" and it's thinner than that? 

 

Give me a break. Get off your self-righteous high horse.

 

Strong letter to follow!

 

So do you feel that the BoD or whoever writes rules for various organizations should adjust their rules to allow for improperly-pulled bodies? Whose fault is it when a body marked .010" is not as advertised? The BoD's? Why don't you target your anger at the truly guilty party... the manufacturer of the BODY!

 

Remember that every body on the approved list was at one time submitted and approved per the rules. From that point forward it is the manufacturers' responsibility to continue to conform to the rules and make the body as submitted. If they don't then that's on them.

 

In addition some racers have been trying to use versions of certain bodies that were intended to be less than .010" such as JK "A" series bodies. The way the rule was worded in the past they could make that body "legal" by just taping the sides. That loophole is now closed.

 

Instead of writing your "strong letter" addressing Steve's comment why not send it to those racers who have been trying to skirt the rules or those manufacturers who don't properly pull their bodies? 

[Pappy]

Before we get lost in the nomenclature of why or if manufacturers are producing "illegal bodies" it should be noted that a manufacturer can produce a body of any thickness they please as well as a raceway/racers having the right to buy them.

 

That's true and I don't blame them for doing so if they are legal bodies in another organization. A sale is a sale and that's what business is about. 

 

Buyer beware.

 

And if your product is a piece of crap just make your own rules to allow it.

[Half Fast]

Improperly-pulled bodies should not have been placed in the bag to sell. You are putting the burden (and the cost) on the racers who are the innocent party!

 

The racers (and the retailer) have no real recourse against the manufacturer.

 

Yes, they can stop buying them, but after the purchase of the body, in good faith, they are SOL.

 

Cheers,

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

Improperly pulled bodies should not have been placed in the bag to sell. You are putting the burden (and the cost) on the racers who are the innocent party!

 

I completely agree. And the ONLY person responsible is the one who did it... the manufacturer.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

The racers (and the retailer) have no real recourse against the manufacturer.

 

Yes, they can stop buying them, but after the purchase of the body, in good faith, they are SOL.

 

I don't agree. Simply don't buy them. If you are a gambling man you can usually feel a out of spec body while still in the bag. 

 

Don't forget... the BoD approved them in good faith... the retailer bought them in good faith... the person who screwed you is the manufacturer. Unless they agree to make it right with you then make that the LAST body you buy from them.

[Half Fast]

I agree with your agreement. 

 

The post was not meant against the IRRA BoD. I think they came to a very Solomonic decision on the revised revised rule, after listening to the racers.

 

Cheers,

[MSwiss]

Like everyone has said, if it's not the right item in the package, the consumer deserves to get the right one.

The only thing I'll add is the O/S bodies I have that are packaged don't have any indicator on the package what it's supposed to be.

[Cheater]

It's called voting with your wallet...

[Half Fast]

The only thing I'll add is the O/S bodies I have that are packaged don't have any indicator on the package what it's supposed to be.

 
Yes, but the body of a certain part number was represented to the BoD and the public as meeting spec.
 
Cheers,

[MSwiss]

I believe whatever O/S Can-Am, GT, and F1 bodies I have were pulled from .010" material.

[raisin27]

So do you feel that the BoD or whoever writes rules for various organizations should adjust their rules to allow for improperly-pulled bodies? Whose fault is it when a body marked .010" is not as advertised? The BoD's? Why don't you target your anger at the truly guilty party... the manufacturer of the BODY!
 
Remember that every body on the approved list was at one time submitted and approved per the rules. From that point forward it is the manufacturers' responsibility to continue to conform to the rules and make the body as submitted. If they don't then that's on them.
 
In addition some racers have been trying to use versions of certain bodies that were intended to be less than .010" such as JK "A" series bodies. The way the rule was worded in the past they could make that body "legal" by just taping the sides. That loophole is now closed.
 
Instead of writing your "strong letter" addressing Steve's comment why not send it to those racers who have been trying to skirt the rules or those manufacturers who don't properly pull their bodies?

 
Mike, I don't think the BoD should change the rules because some bodies are not made to the advertised spec, but if the bodies in question are not made the same as the one submitted for approval then they should be removed from the approved list.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

Certainly an option. But the problem with de-listing a body is that it bans ALL of that body. Even the ones that are made to the approved spec.

[Gator Bob]

Trying to cut through all this BS...
 
Who got DQ'd for running a .007" body?

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

I don't think that matters, Bob... unless you are looking to burn them at the stake or something.

 

And I don't think anyone has been DQ'd but more than a few have been rejected at tech.

[Dan Ebert]

Guys, everyone keeps forgetting the rule didn't change. It was revised to contain a dimension that was missed in the original rule set. Pretty simple, nothing has changed guys except now a dimension exists that will allow the rule to be enforced. 

 

The confusion starts when racers attempt to run multiple series not paying attention to the sanctioning organization rules they are using. Some of the body manufacturers pull both .007" and .010" to supply racers in all organizations of Retro racing. No Illegal bodies out there, just use the correct one when you race certain events or series.   

 

C'mon, time to lighten up and give this a rest.

[John Miller]

So, questioning a rule and trying to have it improved is instigating? Why is there a resistance to measure clear Lexan (without paint) to ensure that the body meets the rule? That's why I still smell a rat.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

I wouldn't necessarily call it instigating. But if I correctly understand your problem then I would call it petty and ridiculous.

 

If you have been stirring things up all this time over whether or not the thickness of the paint is to be considered in an overall body thickness measurement then get real. Since you can't run a clear body and the paint thickness is incredibly thin compared to the plastic itself why make a big deal about it.

 

What's next? Do you want our axles checked by a metallurgist to insure that they contain the proper alloys to be called "steel"?

[Steve Deiters]

John, you keep making an allegorical reference to "... still smell a rat".  Why don't you just state what is on your mind and get it cleared up?