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Howie's '68 world record TQ at "Cough City"


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#51 dc-65x

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 08:45 PM

Beautiful work on the motor boxes Steve.  :good:  It would take me at least this many attempts to hopefully get ONE right.....and I wouldn't be able to duplicate it.  :dash2:

 

motor boxes.jpg

 

Steve is a true master at this


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#52 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 10 April 2016 - 09:30 PM

The Center of Everything

 

Finishing up the motor box involves installing the motor bracket, axle tube and two piano wire braces.

 

Of course, the gears have to mesh properly, the motor has to clear the axle tube and the set screw on the rotating spur gear has to clear both the motor bracket and its brace.  The motor box is by far the most complicated part of this chassis.

 

First thing to do is tin the piano wire that forms the motor box and then re-check all the bends for correct angle and the box itself for flatness on the block. 

 

On the jig block, lay-in and center the jig axle & wheels, axle tube, bushings, spacers and spur gear.  Lay-in the motor box and center relative to where the main rails will go, as shown in the drawings.  Double-check to see the uprights are vertical and contact the axle tube where they are supposed to, then tack-solder the two uprights to the axle tube.

 

Lay-in the motor with the bracket attached, move it around until the pinion and spur mesh properly and the bracket is pushed up against the motor box rail.  Loosen the motor mount screws if necessary and position the motor bracket itself to provide comfortable clearance between it and the set-screw on the spur gear, then re-tighten the motor mount screws.  Double-check to see there is clearance between the motor and the axle tube, than tack-solder the bracket to the motor box rail.

 

The reason for tack-soldering here is primarily to avoid damaging the endbell.  Despite being advertised as “unmeltable”, the Mura endbell… isn’t.  The other reason for tack-soldering at this point is to allow easier re-positioning if necessary as you keep checking clearances and gear mesh.

 

Fashion a 1/16” piano wire bracket brace with a bend greater than 90 degrees.  When installed as shown in the photos below, this brace must clear both the set-screw on the spur gear and the flange on the axle bushing.  To do this, it will need to follow a downward and inward path from the motor bracket to the axle tube.  When you get it shaped correctly, tin the part, check the angle and tack-solder into place.

 

6808 HUPA 201 Bracket Brace.jpg

 

6808 HUPA 202 Bracket Brace.jpg

 

Fashion a 1/16” piano wire can-side brace with a 90 degree bend.  This brace should fit with the upright completely vertical and contacting the very end of the axle tube.  When you get it shaped correctly, tin the part, check the angle and tack-solder into place.

 

6808 HUPA 203 Can-side Brace.jpg

 

Re-check all your clearances and gear mesh one more time.  With the motor box still in the jig, remove the motor and finish soldering all the joints.  At this point, everything should fit and look like this:

 

6808 HUPA 210 Motor Box.jpg

 

The main rails, by comparison, will be a piece-o-cake.  Set up your R-Geo jig as shown:

 

6808 HUPA 220 Jig Setup.jpg

 

Cut and fit 1/16” brass rod main rails and arrange them in four pairs; two pairs on each side spaced 1/16” apart.  Lay-in a short piece of 1/16” brass rod at the front in between the two pairs of main rails as shown in the drawings.  It is very important to keep the two sets of main rails parallel and spaced one inch apart for the drop arm.

 

Cut a piece of 5/32” brass tube two inches long for the front axle.  Cut a wide (1-1/2”) notch in the top of the tube about halfway through its diameter as shown in the drawings.  Lay-in and center the front jig axle & wheels and front axle tube.

 

Fashion two “U” shaped uprights from 1/16” piano wire for the drop style front axle mount.  Tin them, re-check the bends and install, forming a font axle mount.  The front end of this center section is tremendously stiff and strong, and it needs to be because the notched axle tube has almost no structural strength of its own.

 

Here’s what it should look like when you get all soldered up:

 

6808 HUPA 221 Main Rails and Front Axle.jpg

 

Here’s what it looks like with the drop arm set in place:

 

6808 HUPA 222 Drop Arm in Place.jpg

 

Turning the center section over, you can see a few interesting details:

 

6808 HUPA 223 Main Rail Detail.jpg

 

Note 1. Despite being described as a “plumber’s nightmare”, the center section design is very simple, and conforms very well to the K.I.S.S. principle.   Of the eight total main rails, four of them have no bends at all, only two have a single bend each, and the last two are made from one piece of brass rod with two bends. 

 

Note 2. The two inner main rails made from one piece of brass rod could easily have been made from two pieces with one bend each.  These two main rails would then butt together along the piano wire motor box rail, which would not affect the strength of the center section in any way.

 

It is worth noting that with the obvious exception of the five bend motor box there are no other brass rod or piano wire parts anywhere in the chassis that have more than two bends, and most have either one or none at all.  Sophisticated pro design, simple pro construction.

 

Note 3. The roughly triangular opening formed by the motor box rail and two main rails does not show up as an opening on the photo of the original chassis, so I filled it with solder.  It adds a tiny bit weight, but I don’t believe it strengthens the structure appreciably.

 

Note 4. The brace is pointed back, while other notable east coast builders of the period (Emott among them) had their braces pointing forward.  This almost certainly changes the flexibility of this part of the chassis, but its overall effect on handling is an issue to be debated by the drivers, not builders.

 

Here’s one more photo of the center section up on wheels:

 

6808 HUPA 224 Center on Wheels.jpg

 

In August of 1968, the “new” wider one-inch drop arm enabled builders to produce much “cleaner” center section designs.  But this was just one frame in a moving picture.

 

The cat was out of the bag and the concept of isolating chassis mass with hinges (drop arm, side pans and now the plumber) would inevitably result in the traditional center section, clean design or not, playing a much reduced role in the overall performance of the pro slot racing chassis.


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#53 dc-65x

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 11:39 AM

Beautiful Steve, simply beautiful. :wub:


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#54 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 03:04 PM

The Plumber’s Nightmare

 

At this point we begin hanging (or perhaps more correctly “hinging”) the remaining chassis parts off the center section.

 

The hinging action serves to isolate the various parts of the chassis (each of which has some portion of the total mass) from each other, so that they behave as a collection of masses, rather than as a single solid piece.

 

Vibrations (motor, gears and wheels) are isolated, the resonant frequency of the chassis is changed (probably lowered) and the result is a car that is more stable and thus handles better.

 

This idea of isolating the parts was however far from new!  In the June 1964 issue of Car Model magazine there was an article titled “A Second Look at Slot Car Handling”, authored by Pete Hagenbuch.  In his article Pete, a Midwestern 1/32 scale builder-driver discusses his discovery and suggests how to make use of it:

 

Hagenbuch CM Jun 64 Isolated Mass.jpg

 

Unfortunately, it wasn’t until the middle of 1967 that 1/24 scale pro builders began to apply the idea.  The first widely successful result was hinged body mounts (aka “Sloppy Sam”, floppies or side pans) as seen in a chassis built by John Wessels and driven by Jerry Cowan in the 5th 1967 Car Model Road Race held in October. They won.

 

About ten months later builders took the next logical step and put a hinged sub-frame between the center section and the hinged body mounts, further isolating the parts.  Because this new innovation added several rails, braces, stops and yet another hinge tube, it was quickly named the Plumber’s Nightmare.

 

Before installing one of these nightmares on the center section, the drop arm has to be installed.  Cut and fit three pieces of 3/32” tube as shown in the drawing, and solder the middle one to the drop arm.  Next, align the parts with a hinge pin and solder down the two short pieces to the main rails:

 

6808 HUPA 301 Drop Arm Hinge.jpg

 

Cut, fit and tin the two plumber rails as shown in the drawings so they lay flat on the block when installed.  Cut four pieces of 3/32” tube for the side pan hinges, chamfer them internally on one end to fit the hinge pins and solder them to the plumber rails so that the .032” side pans will fit underneath them.  I used a piece of .032” thick brass sheet with one layer of .001” thick aluminum foil wrapped around it to set the tube at the correct height including clearance.  Refer to the drawings for tube spacing front to back.

 

Next cut, fit and tin a cross-brace and straight pan hanger rod, and solder them to the plumber rails to form a sub-frame.  Make sure to provide a few thousandths of side clearance; I used a couple of pieces of folded aluminum foil to provide the spacing.  When you get it all done, it should look like this:

 

6808 HUPA 311 Plumber Subframe.jpg

 

Note that the side pan hinge tubes have their internal chamfers oriented to where the hinge pins will fit in; in the back of the rear set (above) and the front of the front set (below).

 

6808 HUPA 401 Chassis Overview.jpg

 

With the sub-frame hinged upward about 1/8", it should look like this:

 

6808 HUPA 402 Plumber Action.jpg

 

Here’s a top down view of the chassis, ready for the .032” side pans and hardware:

 

6808 HUPA 501 Top View.jpg

 

If you’ve been studying the drawings, you may have noticed that while the plumber sub-frame on this chassis is sprung downwards, there is no hard up-stop.  I could not find an up-stop in the photo, and neither could Howie, so he suggested I install a “typical” up-stop.

 

That’s a subject for next time however, because right now I have to cut and fit the side pans.


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#55 Pablo

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 05:14 PM

:popcorm1:  :D :heart:


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#56 SlotStox#53

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:04 PM

Superb :D :heart:

Onward!!! :good:

#57 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 03:16 PM

Adding Side Pans and Tying Up Loose Ends

 

The fuzzy MRJ photo does not clearly show the pan mounting method for this chassis; so here are three possibilities:

 

6808 HUPA 101 Pan Mounting Methods.jpg

 

The “inset” method (top) produces what I think is the most aesthetic result, but is the most work-intensive to build; you must not only notch the pan to fit the hinge tubes, but also cut reliefs in the pan for the hinge pins to fit into.

 

The “tube and pin on top” method (center) is a lot easier to do, and produces results almost as nice as the inset method, but is relatively tall because the hinge tube sits on top of the pan.

 

The “tube and pin flush with the pan” method (bottom) is the easiest way to build the pan mount.  It avoids having to notch or relieve the pans and is more compact than the “tube and pin on top” method.  As a bonus, you don’t have to put a kink in the hinge pin to get it to sit flat on the pan.

 

However, full width and length close-fitting pans (called “Bat Pans” to differentiate them from narrower brass strip side pans), had become very popular in 1968.  One of the unfortunate characteristics of this method is you cannot “close fit” the pans to the plumber rail.  It’s a problem.

 

Needing to know I didn’t try to guess; I just asked Howie, who said he close-fitted his .032” thick “Bat Pans” to the plumber rail and piled the tubes on top.  The “tube and pin on top” method – good choice for a pro race car.

 

Here are the freshly cut fitted pans and shaped hinge pins:

 

6808 HUPA 102 Pans and Hinge Pins.jpg

 

And here are the raw pieces fitted into place on the center section plumber rails:

 

6808 HUPA 103 Parts in Place.jpg

 

The jig block pins are set 3-1/8” apart, but the chassis is supposed to be 3 inches, so I had to insert temporary 1/16” spacer rods on each side.

 

Here’s the hinge pins and pans tinned and soldered into place, with body mount pin tubes added:

 

6808 HUPA 201 Pans and Pin Tubes.jpg

 

I wanted the solder work on the pans to “look like” some bleary-eyed builder had been thrashing on this chassis at 3AM desperately trying to get it finished for race tech at 9AM.

 

Drop arm and side pan down-stops added.  I used the camera flash to take the next few photos (that’s why they look a little different).  Sorry about the glare on the right side pan…

 

6808 HUPA 202 Pans and DA Down Stops.jpg

 

Now we get to the loose end; the (missing) plumber up-stop.  Howie chose to have me use a split cross-rail mounted on top of the drop arm hinge tubes; simple and effective.

 

Here are the plumber up-stop and spring installed:

 

6808 HUPA 203 Plumber Spring and Stop.jpg

 

For the plumber spring I just grabbed some .032” piano wire, shaped it to fit and soldered it down.  Now I’m thinking it’s probably too heavy.  Maybe I’ll replace it with some .025” or even .016”.

 

Here’s a shot of the bottom of chassis:

 

6808 HUPA 300 Bottom.jpg

 

In order to get a good photo of the chassis with the super-duper shiny Rick Thigpen polished Cobra drop arm, I had to scuff the bottom slightly to kill the overwhelming glare.

 

I didn’t scuff the nose-piece and you can see how it almost washes out the photo.  Rick’s not gonna like my scuffing up the drop arm, but I’m confident he’ll just polish it up again.

 

Front quarter view:

 

6808 HUPA 301 Top.jpg

 

And two views of the chassis up on some shop wheels and a guide:

 

6808 HUPA 401 Roller Front.jpg

 

6808 HUPA 402 Roller Back.jpg

 

If Rick and Howie are happy (except for the scuffed up drop arm), this chassis will soon be off to Captain Rick’s Secret Skunk-Works in the Great Northwest to be fitted with a race motor and body.

 

 


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#58 Phil Worthy

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 03:39 PM

That is so sweet, Steve. I love your work. And your precise detailed explanations. Who wouldn't want one of your chassis? :sun_bespectacled:



#59 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 05:00 PM

Steve, it is a beautiful work of art that is a tribute to fantastic era of slot car racing. I am honored to have you and Rick to create this  from my history. Thank you,  H


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#60 Pablo

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 07:14 PM

Long live full plumbers :victory: :heart:


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#61 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 06:11 AM

Phil,

 

Thank you.  I hope that you are inspired to learn more and improve your skills, just as I was in the 1960s by people like Howie Ursaner.

 

Howie,

 

You're welcome!  :hi: Very happy to be of service.  :dance3:

 

Pablo,

 

Right on, right on, right on! :laugh2:



#62 dc-65x

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 08:20 PM

Thank you for researching and building that beautiful chassis Steve. :good:

 

I'm sorry for delaying this project but it wasn't my idea.  :unknw:  I got sick, went in the hospital and have been waiting for the results from a follow up CT scan. I've been kind of frozen with worry and haven't really been able to get into doing anything. Today the results are in and I was formally told that I don't have the Big "C". :dance3:

 

I still have more "Doctor stuff" to do (Hematologist appointment tomorrow) but I feel rejuvenated and ready to build again. :D

 

So I unboxed Steve's work of art and gathered up all the parts to make a running Howie tribute racer:

 

68%20Howie%20Build.jpg

 

Onward!


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#63 welslotcar

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 08:40 PM

Hi Rick,

 

I don't post much, but I have greatly admired your (and others') beautiful and thoughtful work on this blog for years. I would guess that through this very health conscious time, you have received great support from family and friends, but the creative endeavors get put on hold (even though they can provide a distraction and some sense of order). So what I am saying is, it's good to have you back doing one of the things that you (and us) enjoy most.

 

Thanks for all of the great work.


Bill Leone

#64 don.siegel

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 02:40 AM

Hi Rick,

 

Very glad to hear that news. Been wondering why we haven't heard much from you, and now I know.

 

Hope everything goes well; I'm afraid all of us of this generation are a little too familiar with the medical world these days... hang in there, we're all behind you.

 

Onward and upward!

 

Don



#65 SlotStox#53

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 08:52 AM

Very good news Rick :D :good:

Onward!!

#66 Pablo

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 02:47 PM

Onward, yes :dance3: Stay away from doctors :good:


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#67 dc-65x

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 06:22 PM

Thank you guys. :thank_you2:

 

Howie's tribute racer hit the track today.....my little track anyway. :)

 

68%20Howie%20Build%202.jpg

 

Here are some pics with it's blue "display" tires:

 

68%20Howie%20Build%203.jpg

 

68%20Howie%20Build%204.jpg

 

68%20Howie%20Build%205.jpg

 

The motor is soldered in with a simple "L-brace". I can't route the lead wire on top of the motor. The body needs to sit all the way down on the motor:

 

68%20Howie%20Build%206.jpg

 

I've seen period pictures of racers running the wires along the back of the motor (keeping them in place with tape) and up the left side of the car. The picture of Howie's car shows his wires all on the right side so........

 

68%20Howie%20Build%201.jpg

 

............I made a little wire retainer from flattened 1/8" tube and soldered it to the motor bracket.

 

Next up, I need to get a body on it and send it to Rodney for proper setup at Eddie's Slot Car World. :dance3:


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#68 grooverunner

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 06:41 PM

Rick,

 

Glad to here everything's good! Great to have you back building :good:

 I have learned a lot from you on building and history from your posts... Keep up the good work !

 

Ken


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#69 slotbaker

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 12:34 AM

Too cool for words.

:heart:


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#70 Pablo

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 08:10 AM

Very strong looking and ultra-SANO :heart: :heart: :heart:  I can just tell looking at it, the handling is going to be a home run.


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#71 Phil Worthy

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 11:18 AM

Wonderful build. :)

But the one hole yellow can is tripping me out. I guess I'm used to the symmetry of the two holed can. And the yellow seems to draw out the one whole even more.

#72 Bill from NH

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 06:14 PM

I have one of those 1-hole Mura 16D cans. Mine came in a Grp. 20 kit bought in 1969 or 70 at the original Modelville Hobby in Framingham, MA.


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#73 dc-65x

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Posted 10 July 2016 - 06:33 PM

The Mura 1-hole can is cool. :sun_bespectacled:   When Sandy Gross sent along a Cobra version I couldn't wait to get it into Howie's car:

 

68%20Howie%20Motor%2020.jpg


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#74 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 10:48 AM

Looking good, Rick  :good:

 

I'm really happy everything, including the motor, seems to have fit as intended.  I was a bit nervous about that; those clearances are fairly close.

 

That lead wire retainer mounted on the motor bracket is very clever...  I've never seen anyone else do that.  I may have to steal that idea at some point!  :laugh2:



#75 dc-65x

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 01:10 PM

Thanks Steve.

 

 

I'm really happy everything, including the motor, seems to have fit as intended.  I was a bit nervous about that; those clearances are fairly close.

 

That's for sure Steve. I like a "snug" fit. It shows careful craftsmanship. It's hard to tell form the picture below but there is a bit of clearance around the motor:

 

68 Howie Build (5) - Copy.JPG

 

Everything went together just fine. I did grind a little clearance flat on the motor box for some extra room for the end bell screw.

 

 


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#76 SlotStox#53

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 02:23 PM

Definite home run by Steve and yourself Rick :good: Car came out superb and can't wait to see it with the body on :D

Roll on the track test, just know it's gonna fly !

#77 havlicek

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 03:03 PM

Steve/Rick (in my best New York accent)...youz guys scare me (and I mean that in a really good way!).

 

-john


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#78 dc-65x

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 10:49 AM

I've been working to get a Dynamic Lotus 40 body (TrueScale reproduction) Howie says he ran to fit on his car............and it has been a bit of a struggle. The body was designed and manufactured before there was such a thing as an anglewinder slot car. The rear fenders are not wide enough to accommodate an anglewinder's spur gear and it stops the body from fitting down over the chassis "korrectly". :o

 

Howie told me that he would not only flare fenders on his bodies if necessary but make any little clearance "bumps" needed to make a body to work. OK...........all this body needed was a tiny little bump over the gear.........no problem. :crazy:

 

Since I like "gizmos" I decided to upgrade from the "hot spoon" to this fancy lad piece:

 

Mini%20Iron%20II%201.jpg

 

It's like a soldering iron with interchangeable tips:

 

Mini%20Iron%20II%202.jpg

 

I fitted the roundy thingie in the middle above and hooked up the gizmo to my soldering rheostat to control temperature.

 

On a vintage Butyrate plastic this would have really been doable. However, I am using this LEXAN body:

 

68%20Howie%20Build%2010.jpg

 

I tried and tried to get this to work on scraps from the body. I couldn't get it to work. The Lexan would just sit there and laugh at me. As I raised the temperature nothing happened until.......BAM! The plastic would suddenly melt! :dash2:

 

I'm not saying this can't be made to work with Lexan, I'm saying I can't make this work with Lexan. :wacko2:

 

OK......if I can't make a bump, I'm make a hole!

 

68%20Howie%20Build%2013.jpg

 

But the rules of the time won't allow this. :o  I need to cover up the hole. I talked this over with Howie and Steve and came up with a good use for the packaging for that "gizmo" I showed above:

 

68%20Howie%20Build%2014.jpg

 

I made a little scoop to cover the gear hole:

 

68%20Howie%20Build%2015.jpg

 

Here it is sitting in place:

 

68%20Howie%20Build%2012.jpg

 

Howie likes his bodies mounted LOW........really LOW. I've got this one slammed as far as possible:

 

68%20Howie%20Build%2011.jpg

 

I installed the narrowed Alpha Pharana rear tires and hit the track:

 

68%20Howie%20Build%209.jpg

 

The motor and those super smooth Weldon gears really sound great at full tilt boogy. :D

 

68%20Howie%20Build%208.jpg

 

I've finally got this project ready for Howie and Noose to decide how it should be painted. :dance3:


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#79 don.siegel

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 11:16 AM

What a cool solution Rick. Didn't know that about Lexan... and your soldering kit is very neat as well...

 

Don 



#80 dc-65x

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 11:24 AM

Thanks Don. It could very well be just ME and Lexan. I got frustrated and found another solution. :)


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#81 Tex

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 11:29 AM

I've had very limited experience trying to "flare" lexan; I failed also. Butyrate(sp?) on the other hand, flares "real gud"... easy to overheat, though, and wind up with a "sag" instead of a "flare".


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#82 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 12:22 PM

 Hi Rick, Looks GREAT!  Should be a real runner. Can't say you didn't try to make that bubble !!


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#83 Pablo

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 01:49 PM

Custom gear cooling induction scoop :dance3:


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#84 Samiam

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 03:20 PM

I'll never look at blister packaging the same way again.


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#85 dc-65x

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 03:26 PM

My buddy Rodney taught me about blister packaging. He's made some amazing things out of them.  :yes3:


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#86 Pablo

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 04:37 PM

Recently I spotted a plastic piece in the trash I had taken something out of.

Thought it would make a slick looking 1/43 body shell. The thought of building a car for it crossed my mind.

It looked sooo much like a little Thingie body.  Next time I'll cut the plastic with more care :D


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#87 tonyp

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 06:03 AM

Rick, no Fass gear?

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#88 dc-65x

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 09:44 AM

Hi Tony,

 

Based on the picture of Howie's and other cars from his race and the tech chart from a race held a few weeks earlier which lists Weldon and Cox gears only........we went with the Weldon 64P.


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#89 Half Fast

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 10:59 AM

I love that low slung Lotus 40. Looked great in ,still looks hot 48 years later. Unlike some ladies I knew back then :shok:

 

Cheers


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#90 tonyp

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 12:49 PM

Rick, that would have been a plastic Weldon gear I am sure. The red aluminum ones were used maybe the first angle winder races on the east then everyone went to plastic due to availability and cost, than Fass.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#91 dc-65x

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 06:20 PM

I sent the car off to Rodney for preliminary testing to hopefully work out any bugs before sending it to Howie. Rodney’s first order of business was installing an old body for testing:

 

Rodney Test (1).jpg

 

Here’s Rodney’s report in the blue italicized test:

 

Testing at Eddie's

 

Eric and I arrived at Eddie's Slot Car World before it opened to conduct today's tests.  

Everyone including Eddie admired the chassis and motor.  Amazing build.

 

Blue King

 

I tried it on the Blue King first.  The car is a little short on brakes, so the car took some getting used to. 

 

Rodney Test (5).jpg

 

I have found that non-cut up Mura A can motors have lots of mass when compared to the Champion and '68 Mabuchi motors of the day.  The mass of the Mura A can in an angle-winder chassis will most likely result in a tail-happy car:

 

Rodney Test (6).jpg

 

The car handles neutral to a point and when pushed, the car will step out with a slight oversteering hop.  It was easy to drive the car fast and smooth below the "hop" limit.  If the track had a normal amount of evenly-applied spray glue, the car would not have hopped and would have just slid out a bit more.  

 

Captain Rick Comment here:

 

About Eddie’s track surface, it has a layer of built up rubber and very little spray glue. It’s the layer of rubber that affords the grip to the cars. This car tailed out more than the modern flexi past this built up rubber causing it to do a “hop”. This was NOT “chatter” in the traditional sense and, as Rodney said, should not be a problem on a “normal” spray glued track.

 

Rodney Test (2).jpg

 

The track had so little spray glue that I was wearing out the tires at a quick rate.  You could see the large amount of tire rubber build up on the top of the chassis. 

 

Rodney Test (8).jpg

 

The motor does not hit full acceleration or start to "jet" until about a third of the way down the main straight. I clutch for the bank turn and power out of the bank.  On the short straights, the car lacks some grunt.  I would wait for the car to spool up and have to brake early for the turns.  So the car would lose time on the short straights.

 

Eric and I think the Mura "can in a can" magnet set up with the Versitec magnets are not matched to the 70's era 27/28 double wound armature in the car.  This may result in the lack of brakes.  Champion blue dot magnets and a Champion shim may help.  

 

The gear ratio is already 4.5 to 1, so running an even lower gear ratio to get better brakes and acceleration would not be period correct.

 

The best lap time on the Blue King is shown:

 

Rodney Test (3).jpg

 

Road Course

 

I then tried the car on the road course.  First, this is not a road course car.  These types of cars are designed for a swoopy track.  Anyway, the car does oversteer in every turn, and I had to carefully judge the braking point to turn the lap time shown:

 

Rodney Test (7).jpg

 

Conclusion

 

The track test results and analysis may sound a little harsh.  In reality, the track tests describe how an early anglewinder era slot car drives.  Anglewinder cars did evolve to use lighter weight motors.  Also remember, our track tests are conducted with very low spray glue conditions and with modern tires.  The car would run better with blue or orange tires and lots of tire glue.  It was fun to drive this period of slot car.  It reminds me of my 1 to 1 scale 1972 R Gruppe 911.  A car with an edge to it:

 

911rs.jpg

 

Thanks, Steve and Rick, for letting me drive this piece of slot car art.

 

Thanks Rodney and Eric for your help and input. Next up, I hope Noose will work his magic on the Lotus 40 body!  :dance3:


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#92 dc-65x

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 04:51 PM

Based on Rodney's test, I decided to change the gearing from 10/45 (4.5:1) to 9/46 (5.1:1). The total tooth count of the gear sets remains the same at 55 teeth so the center to center distance between them is virtually the same........no need to unsolder the motor (the old gear set is on the bottom):

 

Howie%20Build.jpg

 

The new 46T spur gear is only .748" in diameter so there are no track clearance problems with the .875" tires.


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#93 Don Weaver

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 06:15 PM

Interesting.  I didn't know that having the same number of total teeth kept the distance (mesh) the same.

 

Don


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#94 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 06:24 PM

Neither did I. It pays to watch the Masters :good:


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#95 dc-65x

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 07:46 PM

 

..........I didn't know that having the same number of total teeth kept the distance (mesh) the same.

 


I didn't either until I was trying to find some gears that would work with a sidewinder Pittman project car. Here's the center to center distance formula I found:

 

C = (N1 + N2) / 2P

 

The number of teeth of the pinion (10) and spur (45) gear are added together. Then that is divided by twice the pitch which on these gears is 64.

 

.4296" = (10 + 45) / 128

 

So I found that it doesn't matter how many teeth are on which gear....just what the total number of teeth is.


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#96 Tex

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:58 PM

Interesting.  I didn't know that having the same number of total teeth kept the distance (mesh) the same.

 

Don

 

"...virtually the same..."

 

I know, it's a fine distinction, but gear mesh with a motor of power is a critical factor. I hadn't heard this before either; I'll have to try it out and see how close "virtually" is.


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#97 dc-65x

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:54 PM

When you try it out, remember that the gear manufactures must be the same. There is a tolerance in everything.


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#98 Tex

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 08:30 AM

When you try it out, remember that the gear manufactures must be the same. There is a tolerance in everything.

 

Little gold nuggets just keep popping up in the sifter....


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#99 dc-65x

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 10:26 AM

Here's another one on the gear subject Tex:

 

miner-with-gold-pan1.jpg

 

Different manufacturer's gears sometimes have different "tooth forms" within the same "pitch" size......which seems to mean (kinda - sorta) the shape of the teeth can be slightly different. In this build I'm using Sonic 64P steel pinions which visually match up with vintage Weldon pinions and work with the vintage Weldon spurs gears beautifully.

 

I've had many problems finding "the right" pinion gear to mesh with Cobra spur gears and Weldon crown gears. With a magnifying glass you car really see the different shapes between some gears............

 

Anyway, this is just my observation and your results may vary. :crazy:


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#100 Tex

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 01:06 PM

I hear ya and have NO reason to doubt you, Rick. But I'm just plain too lazy to put that much effort into it. I guess I am self-relegating myself to mid-pack status.  LOL

 

EDIT: I left the work "NO" out! Sorry... didn't mean to give the wrong impression!  LOL


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