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#51 Les Boyd

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 10:20 AM

Maybe a new class say with no fronts and a Hawk 6. Now what body to run?

Sounds like a well-designed chassis... JK has done a very good job!




#52 smokie

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 10:49 AM

Try a O/S COT or JK Toyota.


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#53 Mach9

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 09:49 AM

Nice -ooking chassis.

 

Just a quick question. Are track owners really OK with having the bottoms of chassis dragging along their very expensive track surfaces like that? Having owned a track, built a few tracks, and resurfaced others, I wouldn't be cool with it at all.

 

Are a couple of skinny little front wheels really that much of a problem?


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#54 Danny Zona

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 10:38 AM

The chassis have been rubbing the track for a long time now. At least since '05. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It's just been going on for a while.

My home track mandates an .050" clearance on the front of chassis. My track has cross-overs though which forces the issue.
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#55 Pablo

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 10:51 AM

Most race flexis are not nearly as heavy as they were a few years ago.


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#56 MSwiss

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 11:23 AM

Nice looking chassis. Just a quick question. Are track owners really ok with having the bottoms of chassis dragging along their very expensive track surfaces like that? Having owned a track, built a few tracks, and resurfaced others, I wouldn't be cool with it at all. Are a couple of skinny little front wheels really that much of a problem?


When I finished my King in 2005, I found out about flexis running on the front ears/skids.

They had fronts, but none of the rules required them to touch and roll.

I was less than excited, but quickly got used to it.

Somewhere you have to realize it's a race track, not a mint '64 Shelby Cobra.

I don't think they cause much of a problem.

I'm more worried about guys trying to run with .015" rear clearance.
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#57 Half Fast

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 12:17 PM

Flexis don't touch on the straights.
 
The stuff you see on the wings is tire schmutz, not track paint.
 
Cheers.
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#58 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 01:31 PM

Many years ago, a lot of tracks were painted with simple enamels or latex paints. Some clearcoated that with spar varnish. It did scratch and chip - and many more tracks used a lot more glue and solvents than most do today. More tracks have chips from end over end crashes than from chassis scrub - and Teflon pads on the frame tips was a fad for a while. I use rolling wheels for less friction than a sliding frame when I think it is better for me.
 
Most modern track should be painted with the epoxy floor enamels or acrylic epoxy latex(water base). These are harder and more resilient than previous paints.


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#59 Danny Zona

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 02:03 PM

Don't forget about solder balls on the front ears and Lexan.
 


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#60 MarkH

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 05:41 PM

Our rules state the front wing bottom edges should be polished to keep them from digging in. We don't care about the "purity" of the chassis as it came out of the bag. It only takes about 20 second or less to use a 400 grit felt bob and clean them up one time. This edge is already rounded from the stamping process on most flexis.

 

I know at least one stamped chassis does not have the rolled or rounded edge on the bottom and can dig in to the track. At least on the example I have.


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#61 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 10:09 PM

A lot of spring steel frames have tiny holes on the front wings. A pin head out the bottom has been soldered in many of those. All metal frames should be radiused to save the track surface.


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#62 Phil Hackett

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 10:55 AM

Gator Bob said and submitted to Tim.

 

"Cheetah 2J"

 

No fronts - No backs- No matter.

 

Chaparral-2J-2.jpg

 

That was easy.

 

Another one, newer:

 

3767880399_a475de22ce.jpg


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#63 gc4895

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 11:33 AM

I just received my first new "A" chassis and it's a beauty. 

I checked it on my flat granite block and it's perfectly flat and square. It's my impression from this chassis that JK is committed to producing a quality product and delivering the kind of performance we are all looking for. It's really smart that JK chose to get these manufactured to such high tolerances before releasing them. Well done. 

I hope to get it on the track on Saturday.
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#64 smichslot

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 04:18 PM

High tolerances?
 
Does that mean a large number?
 
Or do you mean that that the quality is high, indicating that the tolerance can be small, in other words: "low"?
 
Steen
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#65 Pablo

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 05:04 PM

I'm sure he means "tight tolerances." :)


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#66 MSwiss

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 05:08 PM

Agreed.

I never hear tolerances referred to as high or low.

Tight or loose.

Mike Swiss
 
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#67 Danny Zona

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 07:20 PM

Very sweet chassis.

I looked at one at my track last night.

I can't wait to play around with the bite bars. I have a few crazy ideas.
KellyRacing (loved by few hated by many)

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#68 Pablo

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 08:47 PM

I got mine today - probably the only one currently in the great state of Mississippi.   :D


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#69 Tim Neja

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 11:00 PM

I put one together the other night. I was amazed at how flat and straight it was right out of the package!! Usually I spend an hour straightening a chassis. Looks good - looking forward to seeing how it goes on our flat track!! :)


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#70 boxerdog

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 11:31 AM

I can report after one outing that the car I built was very stable and very neutral-handling. Everything was flat and square right out of the bag. Our track owner wants to wait a week or two to legalize it until everyone has a chance to pick one up, so I can't say how it might hold up to the usual race carnage. I made no attempts at tuning and it was at least as fast as anything else I ran last night. I used a Parma Intrepid body, nothing special. 


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#71 MarkH

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 02:08 PM

I built mine yesterday and raced it today on Slotobahn, 107ft-4 lane club track. You can see it here.

As other have mentioned the chassis was flat. The pan is a little delicate when not in the chassis as most others are. I put a Hawk7 in and compared to my X25 3Pc chassis I normally race with the same gearing. Body = JK Ultimate Peugeot HD with a diaplane. Same body on both chassis during testing.

 

X25 setup ran an 3.71 with 3.76-3.79 being pretty easy, The handling felt good and normal. The rear has good drift and is very easy to drive as expected with the amount of experience I have.

 

JK-A setup. No lead, stock bite bars. The car drove a little different through the center and off the corner. It did not seems to drift out as much which allowed me to throttle off the corner a touch harder. When the car did exceed the threshold of traction it let go real fast. A bit faster than the X25 setup which is easier to see the car is about to go off. Fast time was 3.71 with easy 3.78s.

 

 

Conclusion: The x25 is still a very competitive chassis. The JK-A drives easy enough and is probably a bit smoother though not dramatically. I would feel comfortable racing either in an Enduro but if I were to drive at 97-98% of maximum the JK-A might be easier over the long runs.???

This of course is after just one race where I ran the gutter lanes for 15 minutes each and about 200-250 laps pf testing. So very preliminary for sure.


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#72 gc4895

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 09:18 PM

Got to test today. Reinforced the tail with 0.055 wire and an excellent Chicagoland guide brace( really love their products). Yanked the ProSlot s16d motor (Chinese arm, only) and tires from my best (fastest) x-25 (0.09 mm thickness) and installed them both into the A.

Track is a swoopy king, recently cleaned and lightly spray glued.

Initial results with a full thickness Koford guide were really fast but complete surprise de-slot, especially at the first turn after the bank and in the dead-man. Replaced the full thickness guide with a Koford cut-down guide effectively lowering the front of the chassis by 10 thou (adjusted for spacers subsequently inserted).

Wow, huge change! (Caution!!!: as always, YMMV! Please don't accuse me of anything subversive. This is my test, done my way. You can and may have a very different experience. May God bless.)


So, with the reduced guide set up I experienced 0.1 to 0.2 (depending on the lane) improved (faster) lap times. As a reference, this is from 4.65 to 4.55, for example. I had, importantly, the same reliability, in terms of staying in the lane confidence (did not de-slot) as with the x-25.

As a control (sort of, since we all know motors are quite fickle and vary to the consternation of all that seek motor "parity", I raced my newly re-motored (same home-built ProSlot s16d set-up, etc.) x-25 on the same lanes. (Also tried to match tire size) The decrease in lap times experienced with the A chassis were confirmed IN MOST CASES. Please note: in some lanes the advantage (reduced times) of the A were a tenth less vs. the c-25 or the x-25 equaled the A times. Was this motor differential or chassis? I can't prove this but my "impression " was that the A car was faster. The A car was clearly faster than the times I had posted previously using the x-25 before swapping the motor and changing tires.

Conclusion: "A" chassis are begging to be modified and played with. The x-25 is wonderful, and quite effective. I made no attempts to play with the bite bars of the A today. Honestly, for our track, I think I would potentially increase the size of the bars (I.e. Less movement). But maybe not both bars, depending on how they respond to changes in one vs. the other.

The great thing about this design is that it is open to your interpretation of what you want in a chassis.

As always, YMMV. I'm just another racer like all of you with no agenda. Well, that is except beating the other guys I race against- of course. Somebody has to win.
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#73 JK Products

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 09:35 AM

I really like all the positive comments and thanks everyone for trying the Aeolos. We are obviously very excited about it as it tested so well during our development. You always worry that you might be "drinking your own Kool-aid" when you get such overwhelmingly positive in-house test results. It's nice to see our data being confirmed.

 

I'm also glad you can see the manufacturing focus we are putting into all of our products (that's my background and what I really like, I'm much more of an engineer than a marketing or finance guy). Be it the low variability of our motors, or the Super-Flat™ tooling we developed for this very hard steel chassis. We will continue to improve the quality of our products always. We will occasionally miss, but hopefully not often. Thanks again.


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#74 MarkH

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 09:49 AM

Thanks to you Tim for continuing efforts in this small hobby.

 

You mentioned one thing I forgot to cover. The JK-A chassis is much stronger than the X-25 at least judging by effort to incline the guide tongue. Not sure what the new material or process is on the A chassis. Is the whole chassis being coined to ensure flatness when the rear bump in front of the motor box is being formed?

It would be nice if the guide tongue was stamped at the 2 degree up angle needed when the car is sitting on the rears and guide/braid. Small issue that others may not be concerned with if they are bending the front of the chassis parallel to the track in the ready to race condition.


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#75 Pablo

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 10:15 AM

It would be nice if the guide tongue was stamped at the 2 degree up angle needed when the car is sitting on the rears and guide/braid.   

Concur 100% - it sure would be nice to not have to tweak it to get it right.

I doubt there are many racers who will run this race chassis level front to rear.

It is very hard to tweak to adjust the tongue to the proper angle without tweaking other things along with it.

 

I got mine the other day and look forward to building it.

The tongue on mine is actually angled down a hair.


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#76 glueside

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 11:10 AM

I ran mine yesterday in the Central Illinois Slot Series (CISS).  Put a piece of bullet proofing (.007) on each side of the rear bite bar to raise the pans just a little bit.  Bite bar was .039 in rear and .032 in front, JK cut down guide with a .010 spacer.  Put a 2.2 gram piece of .063 lead behind the lead wire retainer (series requires 90 grams minimum and I was at 89.1).  I was running ProSlot 4002-FK motor geared 11/35 with Alpha Soft Wonder Drilled tires cut down to .755 (chassis set up for .750 tires with .063 clearance, which is series rules), and a Red Fox body. 

 

Car performed FLAWLESSLY!!!!!  Turned a 4.390007 on Orange and averaged a 25.4 throughout the race on a 160' Grandstand.


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#77 gc4895

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 01:42 PM

First, thank you JK for the innovation in chassis design and construction. The design is great, it arrived in wonderful shape right out of the bag and the steel appears to be of tougher stuff than I have encountered before. All in all, well done.

I agree with the comments about putting an angle on the guide tongue. Fortunately, I employed my 10-32 bolt + nuts + washers set-up to bend the coined guide fitting before adding the Chicagoland guide support. Wow, it was a wrestling match. It had me wondering if I even needed to add the support. Being a belt and suspenders kind of guy I added it anyway.

Yes, this A chassis seems to be made of tougher stuff.
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#78 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 01:49 PM

First, thank you JK for the innovation in chassis design and construction. The design is great, it arrived in wonderful shape right out of the bag and the steel appears to be of tougher stuff than I have encountered before. All in all, well done.

I agree with the comments about putting an angle on the guide tongue. Fortunately, I employed my 10-32 bolt + nuts + washers set-up to bend the coined guide fitting before adding the Chicagoland guide support. Wow, it was a wrestling match. It had me wondering if I even needed to add the support. Being a belt and suspenders kind of guy I added it anyway.

Yes, this A chassis seems to be made of tougher stuff.

Also keep in mind that if you use a RedFox guide flag, that it already has a 2-5 degree kick to it, so there is no need to add the angle to the tongue.


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#79 MarkH

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 02:06 PM

Also keep in mind that if you use a RedFox guide flag, that it already has a 2-5 degree kick to it, so there is no need to add the angle to the tongue.

Are all the Red Fox Guides made that way? I looked on line and just eyeballing the provided picture the stem appears to be 90 degree to the braid face. Perhaps just an illusion.


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#80 MSwiss

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 03:17 PM

I just put a Red Fox uncut, on the Cheetah A.

 

That one, anyway, looks straight to me.


Mike Swiss
 
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Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#81 W. J. Dougherty

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 06:09 PM

What are people using for bite bars? Factory or DIY? How will DIY bite bars be teched?
Yortuk & Georg Festrunk

#82 swodem

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 06:12 PM

We are sticking to Factory bite bars, easily tech'ed then.


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#83 W. J. Dougherty

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 06:15 PM

It will be interesting to see what USRA D2 says about all that...
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#84 Samiam

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 10:16 PM

" 0.8, 0.9, 1.0*, 1.1, 1.2*, and 1.3mm will be the J-bar accessory pack (* stock bars). Don't have a price yet, should be ready in about 2-3 weeks. The existing J-bars are a good starting point for most setups. Guys can bend their own wire if they really want to play before we get the production J-bars in stock. "

 

These should satisfy even the most anal retentive rules Nazis.


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#85 gc4895

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 11:21 PM

I live in the most fortunate situation that the only rule is Chinese arm (yes) vs. American ProSlot arm (no) in s16d. [Class is any stamped chassis like JK or Champion and 4" body like JK Toyota.  That's all. Have a nice day.]  In reality, there are a number of guys that break even this simple rule but they don't win anyway.  We simply hope that they get better and more competitive.  We strive for close races.  The closer the better.  It's a hoot.   

 

So, we have no rule Nazi's.  As for bite bars, we look forward to experimentation.  How cool is this!  We are all totally excited with the possibility of mixing and matching the bars of your (our) choice. 

 

May God bless.


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#86 Zippity

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 04:08 PM

Besides rounding all leading edges with an emery board, I had to tweak the guide flag tongue upwards using my Triggerman guide tool.

 

I installed a Cahoza low cut guide flag - without spacers.

 

No additional lead was added to the chassis.

 

I placed two small pieces of .10 thou body armour underneath the rear bite bar as recommended by Andy SB.

 

I was surprised at just was how wide the rear axle spacing is between the bearings - there was no room for additional spacers as with other 4" flexi chassis.

 

This chassis with an LMP body, ran like a dream - some 4/10's faster than anything else I have in my stable


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#87 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 07:54 PM

Ron,

 

Do you have any of the new Mossetti chassis to compare it to?  



#88 Zippity

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 08:28 PM

Yes but the JKC43 is faster and better handling on our flat track :)



#89 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 01:20 AM

Cool, Thanks for the info Ron.



#90 swodem

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 04:09 AM

...I was surprised at just was how wide the rear axle spacing is between the bearings - there was no room for additional spacers as with other 4" flexi chassis....

 

I thought about this comment and had a check through my 'collection' to compare:

 

C11 .025                  31.5mm

C21 .035                  31.0mm

C43 New                  33.37mm

Mossetti Patriot        32.65mm

X25                           33.1mm

X24                           33.1mm

Pro Slot                     31.12mm

Mossetti titan            31.31mm



#91 Zippity

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 04:14 AM

And the CTF?



#92 swodem

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 04:15 AM

That old dog!? 31.5mm


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#93 Zippity

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 04:27 AM

Thank goodness I wasn't going mad.

 

Sadly, we are restricted to "that old dog" for flexi racing in NZ.

 

Why don't you Aucklander's start a campaign to get things changed?  :)



#94 swodem

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 04:45 AM

Given up mate. Now us (Hsn), Tga, Ham and The Naki doing our own thing with the C43

You guys can die with the CTF if you like. Self harm by another name


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#95 Zippity

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 04:46 AM

Can I join? :)



#96 swodem

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 04:47 AM

You don't travel, so that would be a neat trick


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#97 Zippity

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 06:34 AM

So instead or trying to resolve the issue (as you see it) you would rather do what??

 

Form a break-away group?

 

That's great for 7 racers :(



#98 Samiam

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 07:11 AM

This new chassis goes for around $29 here in the U.S.  Not a large investment for most racers. CTFs go for $21. A set of tires are $13. A teenager makes $9/hr working at a fast food joint here. A loaf of bread costs $3.89. 

 

Not sure why CTFs are the rule there in NZ. Cost? Availability? Nostalgia?  They are practically vintage at this point. Maybe it's time to drain the swamp and make NZ slot racing great again. :crazy: 


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Support your "Local Racer."
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#99 MSwiss

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 07:56 AM

Let's stay on topic.

Please start another thread if you want to discuss the CTF.

Mike Swiss
 
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#100 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 09:21 AM

I just opened my new frontless JK Aeolas chassis JKC43.  Wow!  I'm disappointed with it initially, especially after reading this thread.
 
Not flat!  What are all you guys talking about? Center section needs work to get the rear touching the block. Pan is awful - both sides are bent upward where the bite goes thru. I simply grabbed one of four chassis at my local track. Sorry, gotta call BS. This chassis is not flat at all... must be Florida gets the crummy stuff?
 
Edited - Two hours later - Also, the tongue was down... now on to the jig for rear end assembly.

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