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#101 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 11:24 AM

Mine has the notorious center section bend and the pan was all out of shape, too. Honestly this was expected though, in slot car racing you have to expect to work on 95% of the things you buy to make usable. Time will tell how weak the pan is during race conditions.
 
IMO the Mossetti is definitely a little flatter out of the bag.
 
I just wish they would pick a body clip/pin hole spot and stick with it. IMO the X25 and Mossetti spots were perfect. The holes so close to the bottom always have a tendency to rip out, especially for newer racers.




#102 Rob Voska

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 11:36 AM

Agree on the body mounts.
 
I ran mine out of the bag and never even took the pan off the center section.  When I took it out of the bag and put it on the block it just went clunk! Dead flat. Then I picked it up and held it to a back light and there was no where to improve it except guide tongue.

#103 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:52 PM

I have three from two different suppliers and all were very close. I did not have any issues with the center except a minor tweak of the guide tongue. The pans all needed a little love at the front, but none took me longer than 15 minutes to get perfect. I never had to chase a bend front to back or any other typical out of the bag issue. 

 

There is no way any of these will ever be perfect unless you want a $100 chassis that someone sits at a bench and finesses, attaches to a backer board, and then puts in a decent box. 

 

I do not have a Mossetti, but by far this is the best out of the bag chassis with regards to being flat and true. To me it is better than expected.


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#104 gc4895

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 01:02 PM

Just opened my second "A" chassis which I received from a geographically different supplier.  I dropped it on my granite surface plate and checked the uprights with my T-square.  I have to say that right out of the bag this second chassis is exactly like the first - dead, solid, perfect. 

 

Well done JK. 


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#105 MarkH

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 05:16 PM

Mine were dead flat as well. The uprights were at 90 degrees but the front ears of the pan were stamped with more offset than the thickness of the center pan. So I tweaked those down just a touch to keep the pan off the track.


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Mark Horne

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#106 Pablo

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 05:52 PM

So much obsession with perfect flatness - I'm as guilty as anybody, but these are a mass produced item and it's going to vary.

Radius the edges, make it as flat as you can, then go racing. Mine looks fairly flat but I'll probably work on it for a couple hours.

 

I think tongue angle is way more important than absolute flatness. Mine is angled down a little. I'll correct it and go from there. 

 

The fastest JK chassis racers tweak 'em by hand and eyeball every single heat.

 

The exception being Coastal Angler, and it sounds like he just got one that got stepped on. They aren't all like that, Charlie.

If your raceway owner won't replace it, call Tim at JK and if he doesn't make it right, I'll eat my hat.


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#107 Bud Greene

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 06:06 PM

Mine was not flat either. It took me three hours to straighten it.
 
That's just part of the game.



#108 Pablo

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 06:24 PM

Well said, Bud. Low cost chassis are stamped steel. Making them into a race chassis takes work.


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#109 Zippity

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 06:40 PM

Nobody ever claimed it was going to be easy :)

 

A huge thanks to JK for producing this magnificent chassis.


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#110 JK Products

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 06:44 PM

We inspected 250 chassis from the first batch and they were better than any mass produced chassis in the history of the industry, including our own, and by a significant margin. 99%+ of the feedback we have gotten confirms this.  It's always possible that someone in the factory dropped a rock on one but that would certainly be rare. If the UPS driver ran it over with his truck the box should show severe damage as it's a fair challenge to bend the chassis significantly due to the very high-strength steel we are using.

 

If anyone finds an Aeolos chassis out of the bag that's not flatter and with nicer verticles than any mass produced chassis you have ever purchased, (not a perfect chassis, be reasonable, but has to be new and fresh out of the bag) please contact me with where and when it was purchased and we will get you a good chassis, and will evaluate the return. 

 

Tim


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#111 gmpower

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 06:56 PM

Put together 7 of them so far pretty darn flat no more than 10 minutes of flattening on each one!
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#112 Bud Greene

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 07:35 PM

Chassis is fine I would like some aluminum pans pretty please
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#113 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 08:44 PM

Are all the Red Fox Guides made that way? I looked on line and just eyeballing the provided picture the stem appears to be 90 degree to the braid face. Perhaps just an illusion.

Here is a dyed and a std. black. Eyeballing 2 degrees online without a reference would be an incredible skillset.

 

Using a guide threader is the easiest way to show it as the threader is about as square as you will get to the braid face portion of the guide. You will see the front of the guide arcs up. Both guides have had the braid face trued.

 

IMG_4293.JPG

 

IMG_4291.JPG


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#114 MarkH

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 08:48 PM

Nice, thanks Matt


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#115 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 08:56 PM

Nice, thanks Matt

No problem. Not sure why the pictures are rotated, but you can still see it.


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#116 MSwiss

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 09:06 PM

I don't want to get into a big thing on this but I don't see any indication of an angle on the Red Fox guide I just threaded and checked.

Certainly not 2 degrees.
 
20161122_195825-1.jpg
 
20161120_151217-1.jpg
 
20161120_151255.jpg

 

20161122_202147-1.jpg

Not a great pic, but this is  2 degrees.


Mike Swiss
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#117 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 09:26 PM

Agreed Mike. I have never had one that is not pitched in the front and the black one have always had the most. Your results are different than any I have ever had.


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#118 MSwiss

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 09:39 PM

All my full ones(10-12) look the same.

 

It doesn't matter to me.

 

I haven't been able to get cutdown ones for awhile now and I don't have any reason to try anymore.

 

Way too many failures, especially on Gerding Kings.


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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - lol)

 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#119 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 12:27 AM

Nascar Aeolos RTR tonight weighed in at 93g. Made a .055 bite bar to eliminate up and down in rear, didn't like the way the pans rode with body armor and stock .047 bar.  Ran solid, I mean was planted, with just a couple setup changes gained .2 - very good chassis!  

 

However, this center section has the infamous jk right upright tweaked up.  Bend it flat, run it around the big banked turn a few times and back to the ways of the DIY hobbyist.  The rear uprights are braced w .047.  I hate to say it but you need to buy a few center sections, just like motors to find happy ones. True.   

 

Now where did I put that old .025 center with the longitudinal striations in the coating?  Florida should allow soldering the bite of choice...     


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#120 MSwiss

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 12:38 AM

You probably need to find a hobby where every $12.95 and $28.95 item is perfect.
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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - lol)

 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#121 swodem

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 06:08 AM

Had a short session tonight on this chassis. It doesn't like heavy, stiff bodies. Probably because it's lightweight and flexible. It need some lead and some effort flattening..


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#122 Danny Zona

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 08:46 AM

I've never seen a perfectly flat stamped steel chassi by any manufacturers including JK and I don't expect to either.

I'm not complaining. It's just a fact. It's part of the process.


I'm sure I'm biased though even though I primarily use JK chassis.
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I've been racing in the FL flexi series since 1999 when I started back racing. Just imagine the rules changes I've seen!

#123 Guillermo Suar

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 10:00 AM

I just find a lot of people expecting this to be perfectly flat and straight everywhere. I think is just unreal to have such expectations unless you want to pay 20 times the actual value.

 

Maybe you can order one just made from billet and CNC built. That will only cost a few thousand dollars and you will get what you want.

Or you can hire more people and have every single piece hand blueprinted. That will only rise the price a few hundreds I guess.

 

Get real. I got mine last week . It was not perfect but it was so far the best stamped chassis  I've ever had from the bag. I put it on my granite block, and with a few exceptions I was able to get everything straight with just my fingers in less than 1/2 hour.

 

It would probably would have worked fine with just the guide tongue tweaking. I just did it because I enjoy it. If you don't, look for something else to spend your time.


Because light travels faster than sound, some people appear to be bright until we hear them speaking.

#124 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 10:15 AM

I don't think anyone ever said they expect the chassis to be 100% flat and square out of the bag. We all know stuff happens during stamping and shipping process.

 

They are just saying it may not be as flat as some have advertised.

 

We all appreciate JK's efforts and attempts to supply new and quality products.


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#125 MSwiss

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 10:51 AM

Put together 7 of them so far pretty darn flat no more than 10 minutes of flattening on each one!

 

 

Just opened my second "A" chassis which I received from a geographically different supplier.  I dropped it on my granite surface plate and checked the uprights with my T-square.  I have to say that right out of the bag this second chassis is exactly like the first - dead, solid, perfect. 

 

Well done JK. 

 

 

Agree on the body mounts.
 
I ran mine out of the bag and never even took the pan off the center section.  When I took it out of the bag and put it on the block it just went clunk! Dead flat. Then I picked it up and held it to a back light and there was no where to improve it except guide tongue.

 

 

They are just saying it may not be as flat as some have advertised.

Ralph,

The wording of your post is confusing to me.

 

It's as if "they" didn't get one they thought was perfect, the many racers who are very happy with the ones they received, really didn't get ones as good as they think.

 

It's as if "they" are disputing the opinion of experienced slot racers.

 

These racers are just relating their own experience, not making a claim on the whole production run of chassis.

 

If guys like Rob got a dead flat chassis, "they" should be happy for him/them, instead of worrying theirs wasn't.


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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - lol)

 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#126 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 12:26 PM

Yes, it appears the wording did confuse you. I'm sorry if I wasnt clear.

 

I dont have time to argue semantics or re-write my post. We talked about this last night. No need to keep going on and on about it.

 

Some people receive their chassis flatter then others. SSDD. End of story. No big deal.


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#127 MSwiss

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 12:35 PM

edit-misread above post.


Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - lol)

 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#128 swodem

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 12:43 PM

I don't think anyone is complaining, just reporting their experience.
Haven't seen any posts in capitals with angry faces yet ;-)
I imagine most are more concerned how flat it stays after a wreck
Good to see new product generating new discussion and new excitement
Our region is taking this opportunity to run a class of interclub races using this chassis only (unmodified). I'm pumped about it


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#129 MSwiss

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 12:44 PM

Some people receive their chassis flatter then others. SSDD. End of story. No big deal.

I thought you said perceive, not receive.

 

Ignore my post #128 above.


Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - lol)

 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#130 JK Products

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 04:40 PM

Ralph, I am clearly advertising it is the flattest and truest production chassis ever manufactured. If in the future you happen to find one out of the bag that does not meet this claim, please, I beg you, take me up on my free return and replacement offer as I would love to see what you could reasonably be disappointed with. And please name the chassis you think was better. Perfect? No way. Is it the best production chassis ever manufactured? We, and 99+% of our customers think so. Some will always complain of course, and for a variety of real or imagined reasons. 


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#131 Frankie Schaffier

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 05:04 PM

Tim,

Keep up the good work! As I've told you off line, your efforts are appreciated. Some folks expected the worst when Jerry stepped back, in my opinion you've proved them wrong. Thanks for what you do.

Frankie
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#132 swodem

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 03:57 AM

Did some more testing and development today with two other racers.

One major thing that needs to be fixed first is reducing the 'joggle' bend on the pans so the do not hang down below the outrigger wings

Out of the packet the bend is greater than the thickness of the steel

 

You can pack the gap with tape, or just flatten it out a bit

I used the latter method

 

Before

 

before.jpg

 

After

 

after.jpg



#133 MarkH

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 04:13 AM

Yes, I noted the same issue. Depending on how the die is made some simple surface grinding and proper shims could fix it. Without see ing how the die is built of course.

Still, easy to tweak until then.


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#134 glueside

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 10:19 AM

Did some more testing and development today with two other racers.

One major thing that needs to be fixed first is reducing the 'joggle' bend on the pans so the do not hang down below the outrigger wings

Out of the packet the bend is greater than the thickness of the steel

 

You can pack the gap with tape, or just flatten it out a bit

I used the latter method

 

Before

 

before.jpg

 

After

 

after.jpg

 

Steve - I would be very interested in hearing how this change helps your times.  By your pictures you have raised the outer pans higher than they need to be.  Please keep us informed.


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#135 Fast Freddie

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 02:54 PM

My chassis wasn't straight but no big deal I'm capable of getting it straight and did.  I have made an observation.  It seems the chassis has a preload built into it.  With the center and pan flat, the bent end of the rear bite bar on the gear side and the bent end of the front bite bar on the opposite side, hold the pans on the outside edges and turn the chassis bottom side up.  It appears on my chassis that the right tang on the pan touches the outrigger while the left tang has a large gap, that's with the guide tongue facing you.  I took up the extra space between the tangs and outriggers with .007 bulletproofing but still have a gap but only when I hold it in this position.  I also noticed that the movement of the chassis/pan at the rear bite bar is restricted on the gear side (bent end of the bite bar) but not on the other side.  The front bite bar seems to be working properly, but I'll be checking it out Monday just to be sure. It would seem that with all those small bite bar alignment tangs some may need a little bit of filing to get right.   


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#136 Lee Palmer

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 03:04 PM

I bought the 2 piece mosetti, took it out of the bag, perfect. Oilites, pin tubes and won last 2 races with it. Just luck, don't know, got your new chassis and another mosetti coming. Will let you know on the other chassis.

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#137 swodem

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 03:29 PM

My chassis wasn't straight but no big deal I'm capable of getting it straight and did.  I have made an observation.  It seems the chassis has a preload built into it.  With the center and pan flat, the bent end of the rear bite bar on the gear side and the bent end of the front bite bar on the opposite side, hold the pans on the outside edges and turn the chassis bottom side up.  It appears on my chassis that the right tang on the pan touches the outrigger while the left tang has a large gap, that's with the guide tongue facing you.  I took up the extra space between the tangs and outriggers with .007 bulletproofing but still have a gap but only when I hold it in this position.  I also noticed that the movement of the chassis/pan at the rear bite bar is restricted on the gear side (bent end of the bite bar) but not on the other side.  The front bite bar seems to be working properly, but I'll be checking it out Monday just to be sure. It would seem that with all those small bite bar alignment tangs some may need a little bit of filing to get right.   

I see what you mean, I have a spare chassis here for parts that I haven't touched yet and its as you describe, but you don't have to tip it upside-down to see this, just hold it by the centre section right-way up and it displays the same floating l/h side pan. 

Obviously not flat.

My flattened one is fine



#138 swodem

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 03:32 PM

 

Steve - I would be very interested in hearing how this change helps your times.  By your pictures you have raised the outer pans higher than they need to be.  Please keep us informed.

 

Yes the Chassis is .76mm thick and I have bent it to .6mm

That should allow just sufficient track and glue clearance so that the pans don't touch the track during cornering and affect the handling

This is how I had it using tape during testing and it greatly improved handling, so now its bent permanent so I don't have to worry about tape and the problems that come from that

The rear of the pans are level with chassis so should be 0.5mm high at tech


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#139 swodem

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 05:32 PM

" 0.8, 0.9, 1.0*, 1.1, 1.2*, and 1.3mm will be the J-bar accessory pack (* stock bars). Don't have a price yet, should be ready in about 2-3 weeks. The existing J-bars are a good starting point for most setups. Guys can bend their own wire if they really want to play before we get the production J-bars in stock. "

 

These should satisfy even the most anal retentive rules Nazis.

are these available yet?



#140 Samiam

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 06:16 PM

 

Yes the Chassis is .76mm thick and I have bent it to .6mm

That should allow just sufficient track and glue clearance so that the pans don't touch the track during cornering and affect the handling

Good tip. I'll be looking at this on all my two wheelers now.


Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
:laugh2:

#141 Samiam

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 06:30 PM

Steve,

 

That quote was from Tim from another thread. I'm sure he'll chime in soon.


Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
:laugh2:

#142 swodem

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 09:06 PM

Steve,
 
That quote was from Tim from another thread. I'm sure he'll chime in soon.


Well until they arrive I'll experiment with home-made....

fddef2a76907cef1f16b05da7d9638e1.jpg


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#143 swodem

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 11:18 PM

One of the nice things about spending time with a new product is you get to understand the design.
The unique and weird thing about Slotcar stuff is almost nothing comes with instructions
I now see why such a deep cut in the chassis design - to allow for easy and fast pan removal...

fccbad4dd3f527ff157d1e776e104f1e.jpg8affa9daf5c0746344fcd4c328bd123b.jpg4561e0ae19fe4506ba9d4f66adb8d957.jpgf6c459d7383f03cf77468f835e3103a3.jpg


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#144 swodem

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 11:34 PM

And...a slight .15mm kink in the wing tips to stop the whole front end plowing

1a20e314c9d8307febc2814259485d7d.jpg


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#145 Fast Freddie

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 12:59 PM

Steve I hate to disappoint but both the center and pan on my chassis are as flat as a 4 day old open beer.  I normally make this up side down check to get an accurate reading of the pan up and down movement using feeler gages.  Both sides should be the same but that's not the case on this chassis.  I'm not done with it yet, maybe I'll figure out what the problem is with a little more troubleshooting.  By the way if that chassis above is your race chassis shouldn't you have an up angle in the guide tongue?  I actually looks like it's pointing down, good luck with that. 


Fred Younkin

#146 swodem

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 01:05 PM

Steve I hate to disappoint but both the center and pan on my chassis are as flat as a 4 day old open beer.  I normally make this up side down check to get an accurate reading of the pan up and down movement using feeler gages.  Both sides should be the same but that's not the case on this chassis.  I'm not done with it yet, maybe I'll figure out what the problem is with a little more troubleshooting.  By the way if that chassis above is your race chassis shouldn't you have an up angle in the guide tongue?  I actually looks like it's pointing down, good luck with that. 

 
FF, never tried 4-day old open beer
Thats front-on shot is an as-yet unused chassis, tongue not tweaked yet. Its straight/flat, not pointed down, camera angle is slightly above chassis, hence why you can see down the whole length of it.

#147 Fast Freddie

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 02:54 PM

Worked on this chassis exclusively since Monday.  It still isn't right.  Both the center and pan are flat but when assembled something isn't right. There is very little play in the chassis where the rear bite bar passes through.  The difference in movement from the gear side to the opposite side is about 4 to 1.  When sitting flat on the block the gear side of the center pan is touching the outrigger while the opposite side is sitting above the outrigger.  I tried angling the bite bar in relationship to it's bent end and that changed nothing.  I noticed the nub at the end of the bent end on the rear bite bar was at an angle and maybe it was hanging up in the chassis tang just enough to cause a problem.  So I noticed Steve's custom bite bars that he made were straight in post #143 mine were like the ones in post #144. WARNING, WARNING  DANGER Will Robinson don't try to straighten the nub on the supplied bite bar, it's very brittle and I broke mine.  So now this chassis is OOC (out of commission) until I get or make another bar. 


Fred Younkin

#148 MSwiss

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 03:15 PM

You need to post pictures, Fred.

 

Your post is confusing.

 

4 x the amount of movement on one side?

 

That doesn't seem possible.

 

Are you all your problems after you "straightened" the chassis?

 

Guys are already winning races with this chassis.

 

I just spotted on FB where Walker McNultey just won a race against a strong field, this past weekend.


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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - lol)

 

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#149 SlowBeas

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 03:20 PM

I finally had a chance to pull mine from the package and examine last night. Flat as a pancake (I, too, wouldn't taste a four-day-old beer to know how flat it is.  :D ) So, I tried the upside-down examination as mentioned above. I find that one side (the side opposite the bends in the bite bar) moves much more than the side with the bends in the bite bar.

 

Theory: Could it be that the bends are not flat? If the bent wire does not lie perfectly flat once removed from the chassis, I suspect it could have an effect on the chassis' up-and-down movement. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time last night to do a more thorough inspection.

 

Just a thought, and I plan to take a closer look at it tonight.


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#150 MSwiss

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 03:56 PM

Jim,

Like I said to Fred, a pic will help.
 
On the couple I left, that I haven't shipped, I don't notice any difference in the pan movement, from one side to the other, and the extra bends in the J bite bars don't seem to have any bearing on said movement.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - lol)

 

Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.






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