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New JK stamped chassis


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#201 swodem

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 10:27 PM

Steve, did you run the chassis with the pan horns touching the outriggers?  If you go to the pictures of this years ISRA  Championship race and take a look at the winning team car chassis (a X-25) you'll notice they tried a similar pan set up as the C-43 comes with.  It appears that the rear bite bar uses a single central contact point and the front horns appear to be bent in such a manner that they are not touching the outriggers and the pan is pivoting on the front crossbar.  You'll also notice that the pan was touching the track maybe that's the way to go for better handling.  Congrats on your win it proves the new chassis is a valid contender.

 

I see the single piece of tape, but from the photo I cant see any evidence of it being on a single pivot at the front, nor can I tell if the front of the pans are contacting the T-bar or not

 

Unless you have some other pics!?

 

I don't think the FK class we run powered by PS4002FK would still be fast if pans dragging...not enough HP






#202 Fast Freddie

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 11:58 AM

Steve, there is another picture that shows the topside of the chassis.  I'm not saying that the gap between the pan horns and the outriggers would be as excessive as the C43 but a gap may exist allowing the pan to pivot on the pan cross bar.  I have a couple of X25s that I thought I had set up identically and yet they handled quite differently the last time I was at The Track in Gaithersburg, Md.  I didn't realize it until the other day that, in fact, they were slightly different.  One of the chassis had a pan that made contact with the outriggers in the front and a bite bar that made contact with added bulletproofing between the rear tangs.  The other chassis had the front of the pan riding on the cross bar with the pan horns just slightly above (.005)  the outriggers and the rear bite bar riding on added bulletproofing between the rear tangs.  The second chassis handled much better than the first.  I have since gone to a centered pivot point on the rear bite bar of the second chassis as a means to mimic the C43 contact points and in an effort to achieve a faux floating chassis.  I really don't think the chassis pan dragging hurts performance as much as it aides in handling, mainly because it's floating and only contacting the track in the turns. Give it a try and see what you think.


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#203 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 12:42 PM

I have seen this chassis run good lap times at my track straight from the bag. I digress, If your seeing a dramatic lap time reduction when using this chassis your X25, c24 or c11 isnt setup optimally.  There is no silver bullet in the slotcar world.


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#204 Zippity

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 03:16 PM

Steve has seen the "top" photo, but here it is for those interested :)

 

top.jpg



#205 swodem

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 03:58 PM

I have seen this chassis run good lap times at my track straight from the bag. I digress, If your seeing a dramatic lap time reduction when using this chassis your X25, c24 or c11 isnt setup optimally.  There is no silver bullet in the slotcar world.


I would agree it's prob not faster than a well set up x25 but it is if they are both compared 'out-of-the-bag'


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#206 swodem

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 05:51 AM

 

Anyone know what lead wire this is?



#207 Rob Voska

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 08:18 AM

Yellow?  :laugh2:

 

99% sure it's Koford. :good:


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#208 swodem

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 02:05 PM

I haven't seen any lead wire that comes in twin-core like that

Makes for a tidy car.

No mention of it I could read in Koford's catalogue



#209 John Streisguth

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 02:59 PM

That's probably not twin-core, it looks like he has a small piece of yellow heat shrink tubing just behind the retainer, and double-stick tape of the chassis to keep them tidy. Maybe even a drop of glue to hold them together.

 

Am I right Zip?


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#210 MSwiss

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 03:09 PM

Twin core?  LOL

 

If it was twin core, there would be some evidence of it, where it's "split".

 

It's just glued together.

 

You can see the glue.


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#211 Taylor Davis

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 03:14 PM

Yes I use super glue to do this as well. makes everything look nice and neat, and stops the lead wire from dragging the track

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#212 swodem

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 03:37 PM

Makes for a neat tidy job



#213 Zippity

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 03:43 PM

 

Am I right Zip?

 

Don't ask me. I only posted the photo :)


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#214 Rob Voska

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 03:47 PM

I watched Anton put 5-6 identical cars together for Team Czech Republic at the words.



#215 swodem

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 04:21 PM

I like it. I have another chassis to put together soon so will try this out. Had 20min spare so just made up a 'loom'

8441380f14caec46e9d1aac53f84e33e.jpg


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#216 Frankie Schaffier

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 05:12 PM

Ran mine in GT1 trim on an Engelmann last night, it worked very good and turned better times than I had with the X25. Let others drive it during practice and everyone's first reaction was "Wow, that car works awesome on this track". Used JK Hawk Retro for motor, 3.6 gear ratio, Wonder tires with about .050 of clearance in the rear. Didn't tape up the pans, didn't add anything under the bite bars, nothing. Didn't spend any time "tuning", just set the flag and ran it. It'll be interesting to see how well it works on a King track.
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#217 swodem

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 08:01 PM

Patience isn't a virtue of mine. After Xmas lunch, gave the C43 a cleanup and new wiring. I think this TQ stuff might be a little thick but gotta say I like a tidy car


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#218 swodem

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 09:53 PM

Was just to try a thinner leadwire, honest! I'm NOT going through my slot box rewiring cars on Xmas day...

a53c333349e609c4fd3be272d5f00dfb.jpg


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#219 MSwiss

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 10:00 PM

Why the huge loops on the Cheetah A?

Anything larger than shown on the Czech Production car is a waste.

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#220 swodem

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 10:03 PM

Why the huge loops on the Cheetah A?

Anything larger than shown on the Czech Production car is a waste.


Yeah, got it better in the F1 aye!


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#221 Rob Voska

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 06:06 AM

Frankie was hitting the egg nog pretty hard that day. :bad:    Track was a American Royal.  I ran it :good: & Frankie crash tested it :dash2: .  Good thing I did my testing first.   Frankie was shocked :shok: to find out body's are not returnable for a refund.  I ran it on black lane & thought the tires were just a pinch hard so soft wonder or chem treated might have been better. Track was pretty rubbered up from the ORS race the week before.  Car was really fast in a few places that I did not expect.  End of straight is a tight 180+ deg corner & it went around there really quick to where you had to keep driving it deeper than your head told you to.  Was not as stable as I liked in the donut.  Think the back of the chassis was running so flat the tires were fighting each other just a little.


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#222 Frankie Schaffier

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 12:38 PM

I just checked the car and it's still perfectly flat, though it didn't really take any real hard hits. The body on the other hand is a different story.

The tires fighting each other... You make me laugh..
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#223 gc4895

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 02:34 PM

Ok, not a test I wanted to make but here is what happened. My brand-spanking new "A" chassis took a full tilt shot into the wall under the bridge on the king track. It happened between lane changes when the power was accidentally kicked on and my 'troller was hooked up-trigger full pulled against the track. It was a loud "crack" as it smacked the wall followed by an eerie silence as everyone knew what had happened. The turn Marshall hesitantly picked the car off the wall thinking it was finished for the race.

Au contraire. Like the legendary Timex it took a licking and kept on it race winning ways. Other than a chunk out of the left front fender it was all go. I think it's made of tuffer stuff than my Parma flexi 1.
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#224 blue&orange

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 11:51 PM

Just adding my 2 cents to the discussion.  First, some of the stuff posted here has been really helpful in setup ideas, especially the "official" JK hints.  

 

Second, just bought my new "A" chassis last week, built with a 4002FK for a future series here in PA.  I would echo these observations:  yes, the guide tongue had a slight downward slant, which I think I was able to muscle with a few pair of vice grips; and yes, the rear uprights are wide -- I had to grind the small rings off the hubs of my JK tires to JUST make the tech tool fit.  Might recommend the use of oilites with a flat surface.

 

That being said, the first run with an old LMP body was great.  I have nothing with a comparable motor, but within 10 laps with no adjustments I was running times comparable to my C21/Hawk 7's. The one difference is that with the light-weight C21's I run narrowed tires; after a few test laps with the A/4002FK I switched to full width tires and picked up an instant .2 per lap.


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#225 Kevin Donovan

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 01:37 PM

I have been reading different series rules.I believe that these newer JK chassis are designed to meet the World rules 83 millimeters, not the old 3 1/4".

 the rear uprights are wide -- I had to grind the small rings off the hubs of my JK tires to JUST make the tech tool fit.  Might recommend the use of oilites with a flat surface.
 

#226 swodem

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 02:20 PM

BSV make some bushings with a very thin flange (and internal oil galley)
Or you could fit the oillite into a drill chuck and sand them down thinner if you don't have access to a lathe
Better to adjust the car than every set of rims...


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#227 JK Products

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 03:26 PM

Our JK5571 oilite bushing has the little lip. Our JK5574 oilite has a flat flange (no little lip), this saves you just a little bit if you're real tight on the rear width. 


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#228 Cap Henry

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 03:28 PM

I sold one to a customer and using Slick 7 oilites and JK Wheels you could put a spacer on each side
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#229 Pablo

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 04:38 PM

Cap, I don't get it, either. Maybe these guys are using super wide gears and wheels ?

Or maybe they got chassis with wider uprights than ours ? Different width rules ?

 

One thing I know for sure - math doesn't lie. Here is what my digital micrometer says:

3.250 width minus:

1.318 uprights

0.250 gear

0.040 two (Slick7) bushing flanges @ .020 apiece

1.60 two .800 wide wheels

------------------------------------

0.042 remains for spacers

 

My car has VXB BB's and the flanges are .015 X 2 = .030

3.250 width minus:

1.318 uprights

0.250 gear

0.030 two (VXB) bearing flanges @ .015 apiece

1.600 two .800 wide wheels

------------------------------------

0.052 remains for spacers


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#230 MSwiss

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 05:31 PM

I get about .033" each, on the flange of a Champion 710 , oilite.

 

A JK 8711PP measures about .813".

 

Depending on the components, things definitely get tight in the back on this, and some of the other, JK chassis.


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#231 Pablo

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 06:08 PM

.813 ? Are we talking about rubber hanging past the rims ? Not trying to argue, but should that be part of the equation in determining chassis function ?

I'd agree it's tight, but from my end, I have two 20 thou spacers on one side, a 5 thou against the spur, and a 20 thou outboard of the spur.

I just don't see the problem these guys are posting about. I'm trying to be nice


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#232 Zippity

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 06:35 PM

Obviously, we are not all running the same rear rubber :(



#233 Pablo

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 06:56 PM

Math is math. Those who are saying the new JK chassis uprights are too wide, please explain it to me in math terms.

If you can, I'll shut up :D


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#234 Samiam

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 07:43 PM

One problem is that wheel width varies so much from brand to brand and batch to batch.

http://slotblog.net/...nt-wheel-width/


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#235 swodem

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 07:53 PM

Math is math. Those who are saying the new JK chassis uprights are too wide, please explain it to me in math terms.
If you can, I'll shut up :D

Pablo

Each rim is about the width of my thumb
The Uprights are a bit more than 1.5x this (by my eye-chrometer)
The gear takes up about half a rim width
Overall, this comes to a little under the width of my four fingers

a265e0ecacf8f9907e5170ddc0a89345.jpg

;-)


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#236 Pablo

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 08:15 PM

I bow down to Swiss, Sam, and Steve :laugh2: you got me laughing now, and between the 3 of you I'm convinced the C43 has wide *** uprights  :D

I stand corrected and am especially humbled by Steve's finger :crazy: measurement system. I will honor my promise and shut up now. :sorry:


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#237 Zippity

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 08:47 PM

As per Post #90 earlier in this thread, below is a comparison of rear upright widths as supplied by Steve Meadows :)

 

C11 .025                  31.5mm

C21 .035                  31.0mm

C43 New                  33.37mm

Mossetti Patriot        32.65mm

X25                           33.1mm

X24                           33.1mm

Pro Slot                     31.12mm

Mossetti titan            31.31mm



#238 Jay Guard

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 09:03 PM

FYI...

one millimeter = .03937"


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#239 Rob Voska

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 10:23 PM

This will probably turn into a long thread so lets use some accuracy here please.

 

1MM = 0.03937007874  Anything less than 11 decimal places simply won't work for these slot gods & their climate controlled rooms & high precision (old worn out calipers) measuring equipment.



#240 Cap Henry

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 10:40 PM

My plastic calipers only read out 3 decimals places... lol

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#241 Zippity

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 11:31 PM

As per Post #90 earlier in this thread, below is a comparison of rear upright widths as supplied by Steve Meadows :)

 

C11 .025                  31.5mm

C21 .035                  31.0mm

C43 New                  33.37mm

Mossetti Patriot        32.65mm

X25                           33.1mm

X24                           33.1mm

Pro Slot                     31.12mm

Mossetti titan            31.31mm

 

According to the Convert add-on on my PC

 

31.5mm = 1.240154"

31.0mm = 1.220469"

33.37mm = 1.313776"

32.65mm = 1.285429"

33.1mm = 1.303146"

33.1mm = 1.303146"

31.12mm = 1.303933"

31.31mm = 1.232673"

 

:)



#242 NSwanberg

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 04:01 AM

Math is math. Those who are saying the new JK chassis uprights are too wide, please explain it to me in math terms.

If you can, I'll shut up :D

There are three types of people in the world. Those who can count and those who can't.


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#243 swodem

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 04:59 AM

I have been reading different series rules.I believe that these newer JK chassis are designed to meet the World rules 83 millimeters, not the old 3 1/4".

 the rear uprights are wide -- I had to grind the small rings off the hubs of my JK tires to JUST make the tech tool fit.  Might recommend the use of oilites with a flat surface.
 

These are the BSV ones I spoke of earlier.

Compared to a standard (Parma?) oilite. These have a flange I measured at .022 compared to .061 for the oilite (hard to measure due to taper but close)

8bed7a6cf09b8daeb15450a342c23895.jpg

And here you can see the oil groove/galley halfway in. I guess it also reduces friction surface area as well

7e353c1ab4573d21137008788107323a.jpg

Only negative is these BSV products come from the Ukraine which can be a pain in the 'mule' to transact with (no Paypal, huge costs to send money etc)

But some cool stuff


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#244 Pablo

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 10:23 AM

BTW, I like the "selfie" in post 235 :crazy:


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#245 Fast Freddie

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 12:31 PM

You may want to try this out and see if it helps on rear spacing.  Instead of grinding the small spacers on the hubs grind off the small spacer on the short side of the gear.  I use a flat file to do it. It allows me to get the gear closer to the chassis as I can set the spacing, using thin bronze spacers, more precisely and that's a good thing.  It also reduces the length of the gear end motor shaft putting less stress on that bushing.


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#246 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 12:38 PM

Steve, would you happen to know the diameter of the inside shoulder on the BSV bushing?



#247 swodem

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 12:53 PM

Steve, would you happen to know the diameter of the inside shoulder on the BSV bushing?


Imperial

e96b85d1066c35858351b71473467555.jpg

Metric

c5cdb0af8b1b950686518955227b419c.jpg


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#248 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 12:55 PM

Thanks!

 

Does anyone in the US carry these?



#249 swodem

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 12:58 PM

I haven't seen any anywhere, would be a hell of a lot easier. Dealing with the Ukraine is difficult, expensive and slow. Even for me down here in NZ. Could change under Trump tho?


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