139 replies to this topic

[Martin]

Dave, just found this thread, Wow thanks for sharing the memories with us.

 

When I was a young man 15, a boy really, opening a Lancer box a slipping that perfect crystal-clear body into the light. Magic moments, and still is for me. Thank you. Your art and skill is not lost on us.

 

Can you tell us anything about these Thingies pictured below?

 

[Dave of '60s Lancer]

Martin

Thanks so much for you kind words and sharing your wonderful childhood memories with us.

 

I do remember these bodies and I did create some of the masters, but don't remember which ones specifically.

 

These were created in response to the growing evolution of the hobby and the new classes in racing. I

believe it was the new "open class" that had been developed by the well known professional racers at the top of the hobby.

 

What I remember is that they were a stylized version of the car we were "Kind Of" replicating.

They were a lightweight body made out of much thinner plastic than the scale bodies, and were eventually formed out of

a much lighter and even thinner and tougher  plastic called Lexan.

 

Several, if not all of your slot bodies have a built-in rib on the outside edge of the body that in the mold was many times a strip of brass attached to the production molds.

Those ribs allowed us to form the bodies out of the much thinner material and still keep the bodies ridged and able to withstand multiple "Flights in the air" - LOL, and multiple

crashes against a wall or the floor without breaking - although there was a limit .

 

Thanks for your great questions and if you have anymore feel free to get back to me.

[Martin]

Thanks for the fast and clear response.

I added this in another subject we had going but I will add here in-case it jogs a memory about the body width evolution and running out of blue boxes

The original Lancer bodies that I measured are as follows. Measured at the widest point above the rear wheel area.

The Spoiler is right on 3"

The drifter is 3 and 1/16'

The Whisperer is 3 and 1/4"

These are out of the box with there corresponding interiors. Note Lancer used the "painted and detailed" yellow box's for two, and crossed out that description.

Hope this adds to the information collected here.

[Martin]

By the way this was part of a Spring antique fair find several years ago. The seller had one Lancer box sitting on his table. When I ask if he had more he said yes and offers to bring them next time in the Fall. Not wanting to loose the scent I ask if I could help him pack up at the end of the day and go to his garage and buy them all. So that's what we did. Defiantly makes it into the top ten finds of my collecting life.

[Phil Smith]

I'm an old fart, but I had limited exposure to slot cars in the '60s and only recently developed interest in vintage slots. This has been an extremely interesting thread for me. 

[TrueScale]

Here's Lancer production tool which has the wheel wells made for cutting the body as Dave described.

I haven't tried this myself with the Lancer tools I have, I know it might take some skill which I don't have!

I can tell you that most if not all the molds/tools of Lancer bodies still in use from manufactures such as REH, myself or others have had the wheel wells filled in.

 

[MattD]

I  guess the body has to be trimmed to remove it from the mold    

 

mb

[tonyp]

I would think that mold was just used to trim the bodies after they are taken off the original mold. Slip it in the body and trim away.

[Dave of '60s Lancer]

So TrurScale, how do you and all the others who have production molds from the past validate which manufacturer they came from ??

 

There are a lot of back-pours and knock-offs out there, always has been. How do you tell the difference from the genuine??

[MattD]

Tony, you are probably right, I never thought about the trim guide not being the original mold.

[Martin]

Dave wrote "So TrueScale, how do you and all the others who have production molds from the past validate which manufacturer they came from ??

There are a lot of back-pours and knock-offs out there, always has been. How do you tell the difference from the genuine??"

 

Great question. I recently measured an aftermarket Lancer Spoiler and it is 1/16" narrower than the original (out of the box) body. So I assume that size was lost in the back pour???

 

If the mold was shown to you, Dave, is there a way you (or we) can authenticate an original tool from a copy. By means of a mark, material or style etc.

 

Thanks in advance for your expert opinion.

[Dave of '60s Lancer]

Martin,

 

You asked is there a way to authenticate a mold or group of molds. 

 

Absolutely !!! There are so many telling signs from construction to the resin material used to the details added, how it was prepared as a production mold to the finish on the mold itself, as well as a specific way to locate the mold to the base and the vent holes that were drilled in the finished production mold, and so many other features that were specific to Lancer molds across the board. We kept so many construction processes under the radar so others couldn't replicate what we did to keep our level of quality beyond what others could accomplish.

 

Because of John's and Lloyd's high standards, we were continually the standard of the industry. If you ever saw a Lance production mold, I'm sure you too could tell the difference yourself as to what was genuine and what is a knock-off. When finished they were beautiful artwork because that was what we were required to create by John and Lloyd.

 

All the molds were stored in a vault-like room that was fireproof and had an automatic looking door.

 

I wonder what happened to all the plaster masters?? They were kept in the "vault" also.

 

You can put anything up for sale and call it anything you want to, but we all know there's only one true original

and nothing changes that.

 

The mold above shown by TrueScale is definitely not a Lancer mold. The quality of workmanship is pretty poor over the whole car no matter who made it  - Sorry, Truesdale.

[Phil Smith]

I recently measured an after market Lancer Spoiler and it is 1/16" narrower than the original (out of the box) body. So I assume that size was lost in the back pour.???

 

Martin, that made sense to me when I first read it. While trying to think of ways to avoid that, it dawned on me that the inside of a vac body should be the exact size of the original mold. So a back pour should be dimensionally the same as the mold.

[Dave of '60s Lancer]

Dallas Racer. How are you??

 

Just for fun I'll add a little confusion to your statement.

In the plastic forming industry "Shrinkage" of plastic during forming,

and casting materials shrinking during curing of the molds is always an issue to take into account when a mold maker is designing his project,

having to figure in the shrink rate of the plastic, and in this case of Lancer, figuring in the shrink rate of the casting material besides the plastic.

Also, just to confuse matters a little more, different thicknesses of plastic and different kinds of plastic have different shrink rates too.

 

Also when competitors are back pouring off our bodies, whatever casting material they use will shrink also, even if they use a cheap

casting plaster as we heard some did, there is still shrinkage as the casting cures.

[Martin]

The more we learn here ( thanks to you David) the more I wish we still had  Lancer and the gang producing the best bodies on the planet. Still in demand and coveted like the art work they are.

 

David in case you have not been formerly introduced, Victor Ferguson TrueScale Products.  is a true artist in his own right and we are lucky to have his skills in the hobby. Victor currently makes the best bodies on the market. IMO.

Although his production is limited as to other commitments in his life. But boy would I love to be in the room if ever you two got together to talk shop.

 

Thanks for taking the time to shed some light on the shrinkage factor, I was a pattern and mold maker in the lost wax industry in a past life (for seven years) but remember the wax would shrink and the metal would also shrink and that had to be factored into the master. 7 percent comes to mind but do not remember if that was both wax and metal combined or 7 percent each. No matter, it is significant. So as you point out once you copy a copy it gets measurably smaller. 

 

One mind tease in the pattern making room was the question does the hole in a doughnut shape part get bigger, smaller or stay the same ?  It was always good for a spirited conversation.  

[mr5oa]

Dave you have missed one very important person in how Lancer came to be. Maybe before your time . Unfortunately he is no longer with us to cooperate your story. You say you where over the house? Sorry I dont remember you. But then I was young. And you cant tell us what cars you did? You talk highly of my dad that's great. I think my dad is a *** for my own reasons but I still think he was the best at what he did. But when asked about you he said he remembered you as the guy that swept the floor. He may still harbor some bad feeling towards you? From what I always been told that the partnership was 60/40. I do like your story and some or all may be true. But I have to ask can you verify. Does anyone have a original Lancer body made of Lexan? I think they did not come to be until M.A.C.

[Dave of '60s Lancer]

Well, Victor - Nice to hear from you .

How is your brother and sister? I remember the three of you and your mom.

 

As far as the validity of who I am or who I was at Lancer Co., I don't mind you questioning it one bit.

I probably would. too.

 

Jairus Watson who sounds like he's been here forever, I have known since around 1979, and got to know each other after an accidental meeting

and he told me about a local model club. We were both into building model cars and got to know each other.

 

I had just moved my family from California and got settled here. He asked me what I had done in California, and I told him about lancer Co. and the role I played there.

 

It wasn't until about 2010, he suggested I get on this forum and tell my story for the guys here. I think by then he was pretty heavy into slot bodies.

Anyway I got side-tracked by life and forgot all about it, but I had signed up and became a member, but that was as far as I got until just a few days ago this site went down and then came back up again and Greg (cheater)sent out an email to all the full members. Reading the email jogged my memory of years past when I had signed up.

 

I looked up the site to see if it was still there, and sure enough it was. I still had my sign in info in my Rolodex, and I was even able to sign in - cool. 

 

Anyway I have no agenda for being here other than Jairus invited me hear to tell the same story I told him years before.

 

I'm not one of those guys that needs people to look up to me because of something I did over 50 years ago. My self worth is intact and healthy so I don't need to be famous. It's just part of my past.

I have no reason to fabricate anything because I moved on in 1977 when I moved to Oregon and started a new life here.

 

I've already had my 15 minutes of fame several times in different parts of my life. I don't need any more.

 

As far as verifying my story or somehow proving what I say is true, I think the details in my posts that I have shared here and with more to

come will be what you can judge me from and accept or not.

 

History in a lot of our past and the stories of life keep evolving and changing as new people hear things and they slowly change what the original truth was and still is.

 

I worked there 13 years and still have a sharp mind and memory of a lot of things no one even knew about. It's nice to share those things and future things that are forthcoming.

 

If you'd like to get back to me for comments or questions, please feel free to do so anytime.

 

Again it was nice to hear from you and I hope you, Lloyd, and all your family are doing well.

 

Dave

[mr5oa]

Dave if any of this story is bullshit all of it is!  I have never herd this fantasy of a story. You sound like Forest Gump adding yourself in history!   People please dont let this man steel my dads legacy! He is a fraud at best. It would be better if we never here from Dave anymore! BTW I had 2 brothers!

[Martin]

We all love to hear the history from the people that were there, but of course it has to be authentic and verified. Victor Ashbury and or Victor Ferguson, would Lloyd be willing to shed some light on what we are reading hear?

[Bill from NH]

Martin, ask PDL also. Lloyd must be included in PDL's forthcoming book, so he may have even talked to him.

[MattD]

If Victor has items he says were given to him By Lloyd, you can take that to the bank!!!      Victor Ferguson is as honest as the day is long;

[Gene/ZR1]

Some history to read

see line post no.5

 

http://slotblog.net/...story-surfaces/

[tonyp]

Interesting.



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[Bill from NH]

I never doubted Dave Susan was legitimate. PDL's post, made six years ago, only corroborates this. Gene, thanks for posting the link.

[Dave of '60s Lancer]

Bill from NH

Thanks Bill.

 

I continually find it interesting how history is made up to fill in the blanks or re-imagined for someone's glorification

in history.

 

If people want to remember me as one of Lloyd's "Slaves" , or in some other demeaning or as a lowly unimportant person that's fine with me.

 

Let history be "Skewed" and the reading be good no matter how untrue it is.

After all who will know the difference. Me?? Who cares as long as the reading is "close". Kinda like hoarseshoes .

 

What's cool for me, is that no matter what people think of me or "My Truth", I was there having a blast, making enough money to

buy some toys, spend time with my friends and have this cool job where I was paid to play at what I loved to do, and set the stage for the rest of my career moving forward.

 

Who could ask for more than that?? I never worked a day in my life, but was paid handsomely.

 

So no matter what anyone say's here or who they try to protect for the sake of HISTORY or someone's legacy,

I know the truth...whatever that's worth. I don't think it would buy me a cup of coffee .

 

Come on guys, the Florida Panhandle is being ravaged by what they are calling a 100 year storm. People are going to die, property will be damaged or obliterated,

We've had massively destructive earthquakes world wide, massive hunger, mass cleansing killings by rogue nations, fires here in the U.S. that destroyed huge

neighborhoods and businesses, and for some reason we can't keep that in perspective with this slot car....thing.

 

I mean, come on, in the grand scheme of life, and a 100 years from now, who's going to care or even think about it??? I mean, down the road we'll all be dead, so let's get real here

and start enjoying life and not be so serious about something that happened over 50 years ago. I mean, don't we all have something better to do with our lives .

 

If anyone thinks that this miniscule bit of drama will in anyway affect my last 15 years of wonderful retirement or any of the wonderful years to come,

they must be joking. I have moved on so far past all this that all I see is dust in my rear view of life , and joy and happiness in my future .

It's far better to live in the future than the past. See ya'll .