3573 replies to this topic

[havlicek]

John, where do you get the "Emovendo neos"? I would like a set for a cool vintage runner I am building.

Hi Jairus. You can get them from his Website , the "X Mod" magnets are the ones and they're ridiculously strong. When I said I had difficulty pulling them apart, I wasn't completely joking!

-john

[HarV Wallbanger III]

John: "On this particular motor, I installed a set of very thin modern ceramic magnets that measure quite strong."

Hey John were these mags you used for the 13OU the mini's I sent you?

[havlicek]

Hi Barney,

John: "On this particular motor, I installed a set of very thin modern ceramic magnets that measure quite strong."

Hey John were these mags you used for the 13OU the mini's I sent you?

No, I used a set of ceramics from one of the older mini motors. I guess they used ceramics on some of them before neos, because I have some here both ways. Because the can dimensions of the Mabuchi 13UO is about the same as the Falcon etc., they were pretty much a drop-in with a little grinding and using two clips instead of the Mabuchi regular setup.

-john

[Marty N]

I've had good luck with this platform John shimming those magnets to provide about .020 to .025 per side if that helps. Looks like a very nice build and that winding patern is very sweet.

[havlicek]

Thanks for the info Marty, I'll probably keep going on this motor until I feel it's working the way it should. The air gap is definitely something I'm looking at as the magnets are thin...leaving a pretty "sloppy hole". Still, even at the unshimmed dimension they feel so ridiculously strong it seems like tempting fate, but since you've done the homework already I'll probably have a go at it.

that winding patern is very sweet.

Thanks It's actually something I stumbled upon while stripping old arms for re-use. I hadn't remembered seeing it before or hearing it mentioned in the old rewinding articles, so I saved the idea for those times when it might come in handy. With some winds on some blanks it saves a lot of hair pulling and cursing.

-john

[Marty N]

Glad to help John. We have a little project going on at our track where we are attempting to see how quick we can push the stock Hawk wind 65/30. We seem to have two camps building. One is using the Kenon thinner magnet silver unshimmed and letting the motor spin with less torque. The other is use of the Emovendo thicker magnet and a .020 shim. This takes about 5K rpm off the normal 60K number punching up the torque but more importantly increasing the area under the peak power number. Both motors peak around 100 to 105 watts but the area under the curve is much greater with the tighter gaps and stronger magnets. An interesting note on this is that the stock ceramic magnets also spin 60K but with much less punch. The Kenon or the Falcon Neo's don't hold back the RPM and live very nice at the large gaps.

The draw back of the stronger set up is the choice of available gearing. I'm on the edge at 16/51 on the 1.04" tire in a 61 gram car in a full sidewinder but have a healthy lead on the field in terms of lowest ET and fastest MPH at the moment. The other cars at simular wieghts are geared 14/56 on the same tire sizes to give you an idea of the gearing requriements/differences at this weight on 1/8 mile tracks. To date those cars have pretty much settled in at around .530 and 44 MPH while my package is running .498 at 48 MPH. To run this car on 1/4 mile tracks I'd need a 17 or 18 tooth pinion while the other cars would have some room to gear up as needed so I guess it's an applications issue and set up dictated by the track length.

FYI: We got our first feed back with this winding on the arm built by Koford as a replacement at it lowered this guys ET's by .050 seconds so I'm very hopefull that the two you built will perform very well. Improved commutation and lower resistance via the much neater windings is alway a plus and having an arm that will stay together is a huge step in reliability. Again, thanks for your help.

[havlicek]

I've been working on a "special" project now for a couple of days. Lots of work into the can to get it to do what it needs to do and look the way it should look. I finished the arm for this project and it's a sweetie...done on a Bugenis stack with drill blank shaft and one of Bill's coms. More to follow as I get time to work on this thing, but here's the arm ( #28 single):



...and a portion of where I do all this damage (I'd need a wide angle lens to get all the "mess" in the shot:



-john

[Jairus]

Looks good!
Mine?

[Pablo]

I spy the infamous "EZ Bake" oven

[havlicek]

I spy the infamous "EZ Bake" oven

yep Pablo...lotta miles on that puppy already!

Looks good!
Mine?

heck yeah Jairus

Some details:

First off, I took a Mabuchi FT16D that was in sore need or some cosmetic surgery and stripped it bare. I then flattened the magnet retaining tabs and filled them with solder and sanded them smooth. I cut down a Falcon can and removed the bushing end altogether. Then I used whatever i could find that would center the Falcon (which is now a can shim) in the Mabuchi. As it turns out, a pair of Magnet spring clips from a Champion worked perfectly to center it side to side. Top and bottom, the Falcon is a neat snug slip-fit.



The caged bushing was missing from this can and, even though they're fine when they're snug, I prefer a solid soldered in bushing anyway. I reamed out the back of the can after removing the bushing "fingers" to fit a standard 6mm/2mm bushing and soldered it in with an alignment tool and a junk endbell in place to keep it sitting true while soldering it in. To maintain the stock appearance as best I could, I then sanded the new bushing flush with the bushing boss on the can. I also soldered-in the Falcon can shim and then trimmed it flush with the Mabuchi's top and bottom holes. After a wash in some baking soda to neutralize any acid residue and some finish sanding, the new can and can shim got a coat of textured black for that "serious" look:



Hard to tell from the outside that there will be something "different" going on inside the old 'Buchi


But a quick peek around the other side tells the tale:



Some more work to get the new magnets in there, but a quick and dirty test with a junk arm confirms the new can is well centered in the FT16D outer can...success! (whew)

Jairus has a pair of Emovendo neos coming, so to finish the can I took a set I had in another motor out and installed them in this can. I also shimmed them .008" per side to tighten up the airgap:





-john

[Robert V.]

Hi John

Nice work on that arm and with those mags that motor should have some punch, i like the clips to center the new mags good idea.

[Marty N]

Now that's what I call a sleeper, Nice work John.

[proptop]

Another cool project!
I like the shop pic too John...interesting to see where the Magic takes place...

[havlicek]

Hi John

Nice work on that arm and with those mags that motor should have some punch, i like the clips to center the new mags good idea.

Thanks Robert. I expect the motor will be pretty radical...even as "only" a #28. These magnets have a way of completely changing the character of a motor. So far as I can tell, you get less RPMs and more torque, which is just what the doctor (Jairus) is looking for here. BTW...Jairus showed me a partially done on the body for this project and it's going to look like it's blazing fast even when standing still! The clips were just one of those things, where I need to do something and start looking around and grab the first thing that looks like it "might" work. When Jairus spec'd Emovendo neos in an FT16D can, I knew going in that regular "shimming" wasn't going to work because those magnets leave a pretty big "hole" even in a F7 type motor. So it was clear that I would need to do a nice job of installing a cut down Falcon can in the "Buchi" and then shim the magnets in that "inside" or "can shim".

Now that's what I call a sleeper, Nice work John.

Hi Marty...yes, I think the casual looker will still see a Mabuchi FT16D motor here. Even when I installed the new fixed can bushing, I tried to keep the "look" in tact. I was going to paint the can gold metallic a la the now classic Russkit 22/23, but those had blind bushings anyway, so I figured the paint wasn't so important.

Another cool project!
I like the shop pic too John...interesting to see where the Magic takes place...

Thanks also Tom. Credit where credit is due though. The whole concept here is Jairus' and I just had to figure out a way to have at it. He always thinks up the coolest builds and his chassis and of course bodies make these things "special". The dungeon...er man-cave...um...workshop (now there's a euphemism for a filthy-poorly-lit-corner-of-a-dank-basement if ever there was one) at least functions. the lighting definitely needs up-grading as the old eyeballs ain't what they used to be.

-john

[havlicek]

I just finished doing a replacement motor for John Dillworth's Proxy car and set a new personal best record for fastest wind/assembly of a motor

the arm was one I found in my "stuff" of unknown pedigree. The stack is of .014" lams that seemed fine and the com in particular looked to be a stout piece. I did John a 65T/#30 as that wind is a nice bump up from stock but one that seems to live OK...especially with the Mabuchi end bell:



The can is a Mabuchi FT16D with the Mabuchi ball bearing. It's a one-hole and chrome so I assume it's a Champion of some sort. It even still had the end bell retaining tabs (!!!) so I used them as it saved me a little time in getting the setup together:



While the arm was in the Easy Bake oven to speed cure the epoxy, I was able to clean up the endbell a little, solder the hoods and install a set of post protectors. I even found a set of vintage lead wires and tossed those on there as well. The Mabuchi bearings (as always) sound like a pair of maracas rolling down a hill, but I flushed them out and re-oiled them and they seem to roll fine...if not the quietest things around.



The motor seems to run strong and smooth (*even with the Mabuchi maracas...I mean ball bearings...in the can). I hope it does well for John and that he beats the pants off me with it!

-john

[Pablo]

If I could build that fast, I'd quit my daytime job....

Havlicek is the MAN

[havlicek]

If I could build that fast, I'd quit my daytime job....

Havlicek is the MAN

nah...Pablo is the man!

-john (thanks pablo)

[Robert V.]

Hi John
Nice work and a quick turn around on the replacement motor that wind should work well, i have one question wear do you get your spring post protectors on a 36d i am working on i had to shave down the posts to make the brass tubing fit some thing i would like to avoid in the future.

[Jairus]

Above and beyond the call of duty my friend! You are one of the reasons why I love this hobby.

[Howmet TX]

John- Jairus- I'm overwhelmed! I have to find somewhere secluded for a quiet weep.... I send over a half-baked Proxy car with wobbly gears and a sick motor, and you chaps turn it into something cool.

But the baaad news is, I'm afraid that can won't fit Dyna-Rigg's chassis. That big old 16D 'self-aligning' bearing is too big for the Dyna motor pod I used. That's why I built up a plain old 16 can with the small blind bearing. And I only had the one arm of yours, John, that was the right diameter for the old shimmed dynamic magnet set-up. If it means Dyna's for the dumper, don't worry- I don't want to put you all to any more trouble. Group hug! (by proxy, of course).

Peace 'n love,

Howmet.

[HarV Wallbanger III]

John we will figure it out and get you running! Trust us!

[havlicek]

Aw crud! No worries John...I'm going down into the man-cave to sub the can for one with the blind bearing and I'll trim the arm shaft to fit. I was in such a hurry last night (I wound and built the motor while dinner was cooking ) that I didn't notice the can bushing! I'll be back in a bit!

-john

[havlicek]

Okey Dokey. I found a 16D can with the blind bushing and drilled that out to remove it from the can. You can't simply just open up the rear end of the blind bushing as it's inside face isn't formed properly to seat the tail spacer of an arm against it ...well, I guess you could with a large diameter washer after facing the bushing a little, but it doesn't seem like the best way to go. So I looked around for an FT16D end bell bushing that wasn't too worn and soldered that in with an alignment tool and a junk end bell as guides. While I waited a couple of minutes for the soldering iron to heat up, I removed the rust and gunk from the can so Sir John's car wouldn't look like it was slumming with a nasty old motor in it A couple of minor tweaks and the magnets could be installed in the new can. Of course now the tail shaft of the arm was too long to install the arm into the setup ...this stuff rarely ever goes smoothly, so I had to trim that down to complete the can-swap. I got it all back together, installed a brand new set of Associated brushes so John should be good for the whole series. I fired the motor up and it runs great...noticeably quieter with the bushing than with the Mabuchi ball bearings/maracas So now the motor should be a dead-easy "drop-in". I'll be off to the Post Office in a little while to get it out to Barney who has graciously volunteered to install the motor and give it a quick lo-voltage break-in. I've already given it a few minutes at 5.5V, so it shouldn't really need much more if any.



-john

[Howmet TX]

Wow! What can I say? I'm Very, very grateful for all your help. I decided to pop a run of BfB thingie shells, enough to distribute at least one each to all competitors and organisers as the least I can do. And I always try and get away with doing the very least...
Them as wants 'em can use 'em, those that don't can keep em as handy serving dishes for hors d'oevres and TV snacks. Or just plain old souvenirs of a righteous Proxy series.

[havlicek]

No problem at all John I'm just happy to see you back in the race, and this Proxy has been a blast for me already and it just started. It's wonderful for me to see so many real old-school cars and motors being run again...very "time-trippy"!

-john