3573 replies to this topic

[havlicek]

I remember trying to run the French stuff back in 66 on our tracks. They never ran very well. Maybe they just were wound for more power? What worked best at the time was the aristocraft (polks) 3 volt armatures in a Russkit 23. Used those until I started to wind my own stuff.

Hi Tony. Were those "3V" arms # 29 or #30 winds? ...or were they dewinds? What magnets were you guys using with them?

-john

[tonyp]

I believe they were 60 turns of 30. They were rewinds, no epoxy or balancing. We used the stock magnets and the French magnets.

[Hworth08]

For most of 1966 stock Mabuchi magnets was the only thing available. Then the French magnets came along and builders found the Hemi magnets were better. The Hemi stack was also superior.

The most popular wind at our 240 foot Engleman was 80/32 that was about a 5 volt. Not the highest RPM but a racer could use a higher gear, 8-29 short tires, and be as fast on the straights as the hotter arms with lower gearing. That wind would live in even a Russkit 22 without the brush holder endbell.

The Arcos came out in late '67 and everything changed, including the number of racers. Sort of surprising, the 80/32 wind stayed fast with the Arco mags. Except it became a double 40 of 32.

[havlicek]

The Arcos came out in late '67 and everything changed, including the number of racers. Sort of surprising, the 80/32 wind stayed fast with the Arco mags. Except it became a double 40 of 32.

I just noticed your post Don. This doesn't seem surprising at all...better magnets...MUCH better magnets would completely change the character of any wind. Also, a 40/32 sounds like a pretty hot double not at all like an 80/32S. The thing that has hit me time and again about Mabuchi-era motors is that, even with the godawful endbells, the motors can be tweaked to provide fun and competitive racing with close to period type chassis and bodies and a double 32 sounds on paper like it should be a doable wind for that stuff. The current Dynamic Thingie Proxy seems to confirm all this and the racers at Mike Swiss' place and then BP sure seemed to be enjoying themselves racing those old-style bricks! The hardest part for me is having to constantly remind myself that a #28 single is "on the edge" for those motors, even with Arcos or equivalent magnets...if the car is to be run in actual race conditions. The good news is that the inherent limits do not mean boring racing. A Mabuchi FT16D, 26D, 36D with a #29 single is still a bunch of fun to run and in a close-to-period car will test a driver's skill enough to keep him from getting bored. I don't keep any #32 wire, but I am setting up to do some experiments with #31 doubles...everything old is new again!

-john

[havlicek]

I got back the arm for my "Czech #1" motor (Bill Bugenis did a dynamic balance on it) so I could finish up the build/assembly. After centering the arm in the field and installing the end bell, I wound a set of brush springs from .015" SS wire and installed a set of BF brushes in the 36D brush tubes with shunts. Upon firing it up, the sweet sound of teeth being drilled at the dentist's office came forth from this old Mabuchi. It's a solid 2 amp motor, but I figure it's fine with the much improved end bell on there. I really like this one!



-john

[Jairus]

I remember trying to run the French stuff back in 66 on our tracks. They never ran very well. Maybe they just were wound for more power? What worked best at the time was the aristocraft (polks) 3 volt armatures in a Russkit 23. Used those until I started to wind my own stuff.

Tony, what I have found about French arms is they are not very consistant arm to arm. Have three of them here and each mounted in a Champion can with arcos runs completely different! Yet they are all the same wind, look the same and seem balanced by the same process.

John, that motor looks the "Bee's knees"! But I bet you will end up winding a new motor come next race as you learn newer and newer tricks. Mark my words.
Of course, the race director may pick sealed TSRF motors.... (and that would suck).

[havlicek]

Tony, what I have found about French arms is they are not very consistant arm to arm. Have three of them here and each mounted in a Champion can with arcos runs completely different! Yet they are all the same wind, look the same and seem balanced by the same process.

John, that motor looks the "Bee's knees"! But I bet you will end up winding a new motor come next race as you learn newer and newer tricks. Mark my words.
Of course, the race director may pick sealed TSRF motors.... (and that would suck).

Hi Jairus,

Since French got in the "factory-rewind" game early, it's not surprising that their stuff may not have been really consistent...but the cool factor is definitely there! Hey, if the motor doesn't conform to next year's rules, I'll just sell this one and make another one! It'll be tough holding onto it that long anyway. Meanwhile, I'm already planning out "Czech #2"...a 26D

-john

[HarV Wallbanger III]

When I first got Front Line Products going I sold to Ron @ Speed Sport Dist, Eagle Dist and also to French Dist. I'm not sure if he was the "French Motor" guy or if he bought them out??? Maybe somebody will know. He was up in the Bay area. Sweet motor John!

[havlicek]

Thanks Barn...the package for Team Cort went out yesterday.

-john

[havlicek]

One for the drag guys??? I say that because the magnets are Emovendo neos shimmed .007" per side, but the motor seems like it may not get hot enough to harm the magnets running it no load on the bench.


Wind is a #28 single on a Bugenis stack and com...lots of torque and natural braking going on here for sure! Arm was dynamically balanced by Bill as well. The can started out as a Falcon and was heavily modified. Length was shortened to an overall .750", top and bottom holes opened up, rear magnet stops cut out and radiused, can bushing replaced and then the whole deal was sanded down to #600 (to remove the plating as well as smooth out the tooling marks) and polished up with Dico chrome polish and a felt wheel.

The end bell is a Hawk that just needed a bit of trimming on the sides to fit the can. Other than that, I replaced the stock spring cups with taller Pro Slot ones to fit the Camen "regular" springs. I left the arm shaft long for now because I had the goofy idea that doing a drag or a road car with a "posi" rear (two pinions and two spurs) might be cool if a sidewinder setup were used by whoever gets it. Anyway, the motor is punchy as heck and should be a real hoot. I think it's a pretty little guy too...if that matters

-john

[Marty N]

God is that pretty. Nice job John.

[havlicek]

Thanks Marty...and it seems to be a a real runner too!

-john

[havlicek]

I got industrious over the holiday weekend and did up a group of arms for Bill Bugenis. Here's a group shot of most of them (there are a few more F1 arms not pictured). These are all #25 wire of varying winds and on different stack lengths. Metering them all after welding, they all come within a thousandth of an ohm from pole to pole...a good percentage of them being exact to the thousandth. Besides the actual winds being consistent, a LOT of the resistance at this level (they're all significantly under .1 ohm) has to do with getting good/solid welds and that part has been tough. I've gotten better at it, but I never feel like I've got that part completely "nailed"...it's a fight for sure. Anyway, the group is ready to send off to Bill for finishing (stack grinding, epoxy/balance) and they should run well.



-john

[wbugenis]

The meter does not lie, John. There are only a few people on the PLANET capable of winding like this.

(Just in time - I am heading upstate to epoxy Fri, Jul. 8)

Thanks

Bill

[havlicek]

Thanks Bill. The meter is a scary thing...it's so accurate that I'm almost afraid to meter the arms. It also amazes me that you guys can actually keep these motors together for a race...sometimes several!? I know they're not your ordinary motor...but still. I'm feeling really good about the big wire arms at this point and have worked out several patterns for both the .250" and .300" stack lengths. It amazes me that such a small difference in length means a different winding pattern even with the same gauge wire. Anyway (as always) it's a real pleasure to be part of what you and Lou are doing. The group will go out tomorrow morning in the mail and I'll make sure they get to you in time for your trip.

-john

[Alchemist]

Wow - imagine these winds showing up at your doorstep!!! I'd be besides myself - LOL!!! That's a gorgeous NEO motor as usual John!

Ernie

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

By coincidence, I just found an old Mura A can with arco magnets, can in can shim and a Mura 25 in it! The thing was run no more than ONCE.

Fate

[Gator Bob]

Pics of two NOS French motors I sold on ePay.

Complete with Easy Melt endbell and sloppy can bushing....Perfect combo

John, yours looks Great !

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[Alchemist]

Very Cool Bob!

I use to live 6 miles north of San Bruno, CA - too bad Tradeship/French Motor Co is no longer around.

[Alchemist]

I just wanted to say "Happy Birthday" to this thread Sir John started back on July 5, 2008. Happy 3rd Birthday!!! Close to 3000 replies and over 106,000 views - Congratulations John!

Happy Happy Birthday!

Ernie

[havlicek]

Really neat motors Bob! Hard to believe the end bells don't seem to have anything other than stock hardware on them

Yikes Ernie...I didn't realize it's been three years already for this thread (plus a good bit before when I started a new thread for each wind/motor)! Amazing too that...I'm still learning. I must be really slow on the uptake!

-john

[Marty N]

Your kind of skill isn't aquired ovenight John. Thanks for sharing the experience with us.

[Alchemist]

Yikes Ernie...I didn't realize it's been three years already for this thread (plus a good bit before when I started a new thread for each wind/motor)! Amazing too that...I'm still learning. I must be really slow on the uptake!

As it has been said : "Time flies when you're having fun!" Great stuff John! Thanks for starting the thread. I've learned so much and "I'm still learning".

Ernie

[havlicek]

OK...so now everyone go to Rick RGeo and have him whip you up a "LaCrank" (completely unabashed/unashamed plug!), get some magnet wire and have at it! Stick with #28 or #29 wire and you might be able to just solder the com connections and never have a problem. Much fun is guaranteed...pretty much anyway!

-john

[havlicek]

I've been doing a little here and a little there to finish motor #2 in my "Czech" series (as Don put it, my tribute to one of the early rewinders) and since #1 was an FT16D, motor #2 is a 26D. This one was a BB can and the bearing was shot to heck. I removed the bearing, which left me with a big hole to fill, so I scrounged a bushing around the same size as the hole and with a little reaming, got that soldered into the can. Then it was just a matter of opening up the shaft hole in that bushing and soldering a bearing into the bushing. Kind of a pain in the keister, but not that bad. For the arm, I mounted a Mura com on a 26D arm blank, spaced everything out and did a #31 awg double wind that runs super strong AND pretty danged cool. A Champion endbell and soldered hoods completes the setup, except for a pair of "secret" magnets




This is a great running 26D with lots of power...but still seeming pretty "safe"

Here's the family shot...so far:



-john