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Arm winding #1

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#51 stoo23

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 07:47 AM

Well, as I have said before,..some damn Nice work here !!

Having been 'Bitten' by the whole Retro thing,..I Managed to 'Dig Up' a Whole Heap of My Real OLD Slot Car stuff,..and Lo and Behold,..I have Found My Very First,..
'Hand Wound',.."Proper" Race Arm,..that I spoke of in a Previous Post.

This was actually, a Great Arm and is One that,..considering it was My First serious attempt,..Waaaay Back when I guess I was Onl;y about 14 or 15, Ain't too Bad!
The Fact that it Ran Extremely Well,..(Especially for a Statically Balanced arm!!),..to the Point where I even 'Re Balanced it some years Later and Won another Race with it !!
It was,..Just 'One of those Arms',..You Know?,..the ones that Just Run 'Right' and Never Get too Hot !!,.. :D

It's a 20 of 25, wound with MURA Wire, Held together with MURA 'Team Cukras Epoxy' !!

At the time, one of the Local Pro's,..(Steve Hutcheson), helped and gave me advice on Winding and actually 'Assisted' in MY Static Balance of the Arm at His Place, using His Balance Edge set up that He had Made and was Excellent.

When I First Started Racing,..'Hutcho' as he was known, wound Amazing Motors!,..Quite Often Long Stacks as that was The Norm in That era, with the weight of the Cars and with Our Tracks/Power etc , he even made his own Comm welder and was one of the Few who you would let True the Comm for you,..almost Unheard of waay back by the average racer,..lol

Oh what Memories opening Up THAT Box of Old slot car bits has brought back !!,.. :) :) :)
Stoo :)

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Stewart Amos

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#52 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 11:55 AM

Nice looking arm Stew! If it weren't for the balance holes, I'd have thought I was looking at an old Mura factory wound arm. If you were to get it reconditioned, it'd probably still be runable. :)

Bill Fernald

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#53 havlicek

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 04:09 PM

Hi Stew,

Yeah...nice looking arm alright! Why not do as Bill suggested and get it cleaned-up and run it? Better yet...why not wind some new ones? :) Thanks for sharing the pictures!

-john
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#54 stoo23

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 06:32 PM

Hey Thanks Bill and John,

Actually, come to think of it, it Wasn't My First Arm,..But the First Serious 'C' Can Arm,..as ,.. Much like yourselves, I had been De-Winding,..and Winding My 26D's !!

It was because of My 26D's, that Hutcho offered to Help out,..I found an even Older Long Stack Arm, (probably a Mabuchi), that has let all 'The Magic Smoke' get out,..rofl,..

As to the arm,..Unfortunately,..as one can Note from the Pics, the Comm Has been Trued the odd once or twice!,..lol and Sadly, one of the Comm Segments is Just starting to Lift on One side ,..Near the Base. Sad Really, as it Would be Nice to 'Spin her up' again!!

Guess i WILL Just have to Wind some New ones!!,..lol
I still have Hutcho's Associated Winder (although He wants it Back), and Rolls of MURA Wire, blanks and Kirkwood Comms!

:)
Stewart Amos

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#55 havlicek

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 12:33 PM

Here's a nice #25 awg on a new Mura blank and com. Spins really nice. :)

Blank: New Mura
Overall Length: 1.102"
Diameter: .512"
Stack Length: .465"
Resistance: approx. .2 ohm

Posted Image

-john
John Havlicek

#56 havlicek

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 05:20 AM

I see people are looking so I should add that the arm looks like it will settle-in at a bit under 4 amps @12 volts. On this one, the arm blank was coated with hi temp epoxy over the powder coating done by Mura and of course epoxied with the same hi-temp epoxy after being wound and tied. Shaft extension is good for either can or endbell drive.

-john
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#57 Horsepower

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 11:16 PM

John, you are really becoming an armature artist! :wub: Did that epoxy company ever send you a sample kit? The name of the company escapes me right now. Was it Duralco? I applied for a sample way back but they never sent it. :angry: It doesn't matter now because I can't do anything anyway. :( Just wondering which epoxy you were using...... :) Did I say becoming? You ARE the artist! :dance4:
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#58 Jairus

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:21 AM

In all my years of building slot cars... I have to say that John is indeed the best! :)

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#59 stoo23

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:09 AM

You Know,..I have this Feeling that it is Monsanto,..that actually Make that Wonderful Hi Temp Phenolic Resin that I had Years ago !!,..Certainly worth checking out,..as I seem to remember I was sent a 'Sample' that would have lasted a Few Generations !!!,..lol
Stewart Amos

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#60 stoo23

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:09 AM

Yes,..I Must agree,..once again,..Beautiful Work !!

You Most definitely Have Started Me thinking again !!!,..lol

After Further 'Digging' in the Parents Garage,..I Finally Found the Old Winder,. an old Associated one I think,....(that actually Does belong to Steve Hutcheson), so I just Might have to Wind a few up, Just for the heck of it, I have quite a few rolls of Mura wire and plenty of Short and Long blanks with Kirkwood Comms,..so,..:):)

Not so sure I can be Bothered Statically Balancing them though !!! and I don't think I still have any 'poxy' !!!

But wrapping wire around stacks always was a rather Zen Like excercise !!!,..:):)

Hey I also found and OLD 26D arm,..must be a #29 or something, unbalanced, but epoxied, with No wrapping,..would Probably have Been a Time Bomb !!,..I was using Clip in Motors and usually had a Few for a Race !!!,..lol Pic Below,..
OH and I also Found a Nice Looking #27,..that still has the Wire Spool attached and ONLY 2 Poles Wound !!!,..WTF ???,..I wonder Just How Many turns are on there?,..DOH !!

As it Must be Over 20 Years,..it kinda Does make me Wonder why I Never finished it !!

Cheers,.. :)

Apologies for 'dodgy' pics, but apart from the Winder,..the others aren't That Worthy!,..lol

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Stewart Amos

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#61 havlicek

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 06:06 AM

John, you are really becoming an armature artist! Did that epoxy company ever send you a sample kit? The name of the company escapes me right now. Was it Duralco? I applied for a sample way back but they never sent it. It doesn't matter now because I can't do anything anyway. Just wondering which epoxy you were using...... Did I say becoming? You ARE the artist!


Hi Gary and thank you! I don't know about the artist thing, but I am persistent and try to pay attention to details anyway. The armature thing is really a whole area of building a person can get lost in. There is also a bit of "magic" involved where you can do everything exactly the same, yet some arms have that extra little something when I run them to check the results. That's part of the fun for me though.

Yes on the epoxy. I'm using Duralco 4461 with a 500 degree rating and it's nice stuff. It has a VERY low working viscosity and penetrates the windings beautifully. In fact, if you don't apply enough, it seems to disappear from the surface of the stack quickly. Of course, I'm using kevlar to tie the things ans the Duralco also penetrates the kevlar completely and quickly. Anyone who has worked with composites will tell you that full-wetting is really important in achieving the most strength in the finished product and the 4461 is great in this regard. Thanks again.

Hi Jairus,

I think you're one of those builders here that hangs in some pretty rarified company so even though I would disagree strongly, I'll just say thank you! :)

Hi Stoo,

I think my quest for a suitable epoxy is pretty well over (thank heaven!), as the Duralco 4461 seems about ideal because of the many qualities it has that fit the bill. There are even higher rated epoxies (Cotronics has some as well besides their "Duralco" brand), but they require curing schedules that would make them difficult for general users and either color or viscosity may not be ideal. The 4461 has good characteristics in all four areas...hi temp, low viscosity, very clear and a relatively easy cure schedule.

Very cool to see you have the stuff to get winding and I agree that wrapping stacks is indeed a "zen" like thing! I wish more people would "rediscover" the whole thing like you, because it really takes you back to wind an arm and hear the thing whistle. Heck...even the ones that don't quite work out remind me of the many I did as a kid I had to toss and those I just chalk up to fun and learning. With some patience and a bit of practice, you can get entirely useable/satisfactory results static-balancing these things too...so don't let that stop you. Go for it!

I think that even though they are difficult, I really like doing the heavy winds best...#23, #24 and #25. The torque and revs you can get are pretty astonishing at 12V, even in a run-of-the-mill modern C can setup with no special care having been taken as far as "blueprinting" is concerned. This stuff is fun!

-john

PS...I have a #24 that I consider a "second" as I nicked a wire :shok: :unsure: :blink: I've tested it (as I do always) at full revs/no load and it seems fine so if anyone's interested in it...I can let it go cheap.
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#62 Steve Deiters

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 07:55 AM

I'm curious. I've been following this thread for a while and I was wondering of any of these winders are using vacuum chambers after they apply the uncured epoxy to assue penetration into all of the windings down to the laminations?

#63 havlicek

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 08:20 AM

Hi Steve,

I can't answer for anyone else, but my answer is NO. See my post above about the low-viscosity/penetration characteristics of the epoxy I use. For me, this is one of those things that come under "the proof is in the pudding" heading. First off...the epoxy is going somewhere when it disappears from the surface of the winds, presumably deep into the coil. How deep?...beats me, but the result is a solid coil that seems to hold up fine under the severe rotational forces that are present. Is there an advantage in real terms as far as durability is concerned when using a vacuum bag or chamber over simply applying the epoxy and letting it do it's thing?...beats me, but I suspect if there is it's probably not significant. Others will surely disagree, and that's what makes a horserace.

-john
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#64 Prof. Fate

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 11:18 AM

Hi

Don't worry abut the epoxy "disappearing". The epoxy isn't some sort of barrier or shield. Quite the opposite, the reason you don't see "bubblegum" typ epoxy apps for more than a few months in the 60s was we all realized we were STUPID!

Lots of coverage actually holds the heat in the wind. You will find that the "disappeared" epoxy is still holding the winds, but will run longer/cooler. And weigh less.

In 68/9, when the group 12 rules just said an unbalenced arm, we would use more exoxy as a way to balence the wind without showing.

Anyway, back in the day, most tracks had one or two builders, and in several tracks, there might be one arm winder after about 66 or so. The short version is that the motor geeks were even more unusual than the chassis builders.

I suspect that part of the problem was that a lot of the motor information in the mags was just wrong. Most, I think, in the peak of the fad were written by my friend Bob Schliecher. He has zero technical understanding. Everything he wrote was based on his understanding of what someone told him.

Fate
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#65 havlicek

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 11:34 AM

Don't worry abut the epoxy "disappearing".


Hi Rocky,

As I said above, I'm not worrying (?) about the epoxy disappearing...rather that tells me that it is indeed penetrating the coils/winds because of it's low viscosity exactly as I want it to.

-john
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#66 havlicek

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 05:10 PM

A #25 awg on a vintage Mura blank with Kirkwood com. This arm blank was assembled from two really short stack blanks...kinda difficult to do without totally screwing both arms up, but I worked out a system that did OK. Not the prettiest arm, but it sure does spin like the devil and doesn't get too warm or draw much current. Seems like it will settle-in at around 3 amps or so.

Posted Image

-john
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#67 Jairus

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 06:39 PM

Very pretty! Love you experimenting, keeps the knife sharp...

Did you get your car back?
I am going to need an arm for the 2009 proxy soon. Something not too hot... about 3 - 4 amps but tied and balanced. Can drive or endbell makes no difference. Has to last 4 or 5 races on mostly fairly large American style tracks without any maintenance. Chassis will be heavy brass rod with lead added. 4 to 1 gear ratio. You game my friend...?
Oh, and no hurry either. ;)

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#68 Ron Hershman

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 07:13 PM

I'm curious. I've been following this thread for a while and I was wondering of any of these winders are using vacuum chambers after they apply the uncured epoxy to assue penetration into all of the windings down to the laminations?


I do. :) Some dip, some brush, some trickle. Vacuum impregnation is the best method, if done correctly.... and all commercial arm companies do this. Not sure who was the first to ever do it, but Bob Green figured it out pretty early.

#69 havlicek

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 09:26 PM

Hi Jairus,

Did you get your car back?


Yes I did and there's a problem...the cars I painted look shabby now in comparison :shok: It looks even better in person Jairus! :wub:

I am going to need an arm for the 2009 proxy soon. Something not too hot... about 3 - 4 amps but tied and balanced. Can drive or endbell makes no difference. Has to last 4 or 5 races on mostly fairly large American style tracks without any maintenance. Chassis will be heavy brass rod with lead added. 4 to 1 gear ratio. You game my friend...?


Absolutely...I have just the thing for you and will get going as soon as some "special stock" arrives ;) Just let me know what can it's going in.

-john
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#70 havlicek

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 11:49 AM

Jairus,

How's this work for you? It's a #28 sgl. on a vintage Mura blank with Kirkwood com. Draws only about 2.3 amps, resistance is around .3 ohms-ish, timing is +17 and it runs cool. Wound more for longevity than barn-burning :)

Posted Image

-john
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#71 Jairus

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:13 PM

Sorry, I didn't get back to you sooner. The can is a 1968 Champion one hole 16D. Endbell is an NOS Champion white with heat sinks and spring protectors.
The arm looks BEAUTIFUL as usual! The car will be brass rod with a "BatCar" body by Gene.

Mongo happy!
:D

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#72 havlicek

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 03:18 PM

Cool Jairus...the arm should pop right in. Depending on how you like to set them up, you may (or may not) want to shim the mags a little and I think the arm will be a really good match for your purpose. It's on the way with a little extra "goody" in there :)

-john
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#73 idare2bdul

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 12:57 AM

Rocky's point about the ratio of motor guys to chassis guys is well taken. The learning curve could be pretty steep with the older motors you often didn't just lose the arm it would take the endbell with it. As a kid I was reluctant to risk that kind of money loss.

Complicating things further was the fact that wire size, timing, can design and magnets all were inter-related performance factors. If you picked up a motor theory book from the library it was in technical jargon a kid wouldn't understand and by the early can era we were doing things with motors that would have horrified an electrical engineer. Take a look at some of the modern G7 or Eurosport motors, they aren't a whole lot bigger than the old Tyco HO motors yet some go 40 minutes of racing at serious speeds.
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#74 havlicek

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 05:13 AM

Where I ran as a kid, there were a good number of guys winding motors. Actually, motors and motor parts (Mabuchi anyway) were pretty cheap, even on a paperboy's salary which was a good thing since the Mabuchi stuff was guaranteed to self-destruct almost regardless of what you did (I don't remember winding anything other than Mabuchis). The problem back then for me was that everyone was secretive and almost nobody shared information. When we started seeing "commercial" rewinds showing up later on, we would guess at what we could from looking at those arms as well. The good news was that the tracks all carried arm blanks, magnet wire (ooooh...and the silver stuff too) and winding machines. Because nobody shared information, it was all a matter of try...burn...try...explode...try...melt...try...YEAH! (then melt) etc. Building knowledge was frustrating, but fun for me anyway. Now with the internet and all, people can MUCH more easily give this stuff a try.

-john
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#75 stoo23

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 06:39 AM

Yeah,..I agree,..I was Really Lucky,..in having access to Steve Hutchesson, who apart from Winding Beautiful Motors and being Very Very Good at all things armature and Motor,..Plus I had a Family friend who was a very good Emgineer and a pretty plugged in Guy and Really helped me understand the Whole cocept.

As you say,..way back,..guys Were fairly secretive,..but some were always ready with some help and encouragement,..for that I thank them.

Plus working at the track when you are a kid,..sure helps !!!,..:)

Hey,..How many Turns on That #28 ??

I was thinking a Single or two in That Guage or a double might be Fun!!

I had a few 2728 and 28 dbls that worked Real well for me Way back,..Especially in 36D land,..I had a particular #25 wind and a 29/29 double that used to Really Scream !!! and almost laso 2 or 3 brackets before Melting !!!,..:)
Stewart Amos

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#76 havlicek

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 08:07 AM

Hi Stoo,

Depending on the arm, advance, setup and intended use...I go anywhere from 39-42 turns of #28. You can go higher on a modern blank as there's lotsa room with the thin cross section on those, but I don't see the point. Double 28's work real well, but I don't know that the hassle of a double 28 is worth it over a single #25. I've done some double #26's that were really nice too, but double winds are really a pain in the posterior :) I think single 26/27/28 winds can be really useful and a nice balance between the amp-sucking big winds and the wimpy winds used until magnets, coms and endbells caught-up, although 26 is starting to get up there.

-john
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#77 stoo23

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 08:29 AM

Sorry,..I Said 36D Land,..I Meant 26D !!,..Doh !!
Although I Did have a few 36D's,..I Never really Got Into them.
Being Younger, I guess I was into the 'Bleeding Edge ' !!,..lol
Mind you I never got 'sucked in' by 'B' Motors !! :):)

Gee I remember Wayne Bramble Having Some absolutely 'Wild' "Spiderman" Triples Way Back !!

They Worked Great Here,. as we Had No Tracks like You Guys and Widely Varying Power supplies etc.

I Know what ya mean re the Posterior Pain !!,.. ;) ;) ,..but there's sumthin' cool about Doubles/Triples eh !!

26#'s ???,..Love "em !!

Used to Run quite a Few 26# arms in 26D's as well.

I will Have to Order some Longer Blamks from Mura,..as I thought I had Heaps,..I Do,..But they are all the 375 and 350 lengths, I Only have a Couple of The Longer Older blanks,..DOH !!,..The things we Lose and or Throw away eh !!,..sigh,..

Hey Whatever Happened to Those 'Real Purdy' .oo4 Champion Stacks,..as I Recall, they Had a Great Web and Hood Shape !!, Especially for the Kind of Arms We are Talking about.

For That Matter,..What did Team Checkpoint Use??,..Every Damn Steube arm I Ever Owned was an absolute 'Pearler' !!!
Ahh,..the Memories,..the smell of the Magic Smoke 'Getting Out',....lol
Stewart Amos

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#78 havlicek

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:56 AM

Stoo,

Yeah, the 36Ds never attracted me...they seemed HUGE, but I do recall having done some as I tended to rip apart whatever I got my grubby hands on.

I will Have to Order some Longer Blamks from Mura,..as I thought I had Heaps,..I Do,..But they are all the 375 and 350 lengths, I Only have a Couple of The Longer Older blanks,..DOH !!,..The things we Lose and or Throw away eh !!,..sigh,..


I got a hold of some of those short stacks and was able to get two longer stacks out of every three (or three out of every four). It was really difficult, but it is doable if you get stuck. Keep in mind that the blanks Mura sells now are not the same as the old ones you're talking about here. The web/cross section is quite thin so you have to be careful when balancing them. The new Mura coms are fine and are useable "as-is" even if you don't have access to a com lathe. If you do have a lathe, they require only a slight amount of truing to get them spot-on. The Kirkwoods are misshapen right out of the bag and require some pretty heavy cutting to get them true...I also much prefer the tabs on the new Muras over the old coms.

Hey Whatever Happened to Those 'Real Purdy' .oo4 Champion Stacks,..as I Recall, they Had a Great Web and Hood Shape !!, Especially for the Kind of Arms We are Talking about.


I got two of the Champion stacks over the last year or so and both had shaft problems. I think I was able to get one sort of straight and use it, but it was a shame because they were really nice.

For That Matter,..What did Team Checkpoint Use??,..Every Damn Steube arm I Ever Owned was an absolute 'Pearler' !!!
Ahh,..the Memories,..the smell of the Magic Smoke 'Getting Out',....lol


Beats me, but I'm sure Philippe and others here do. For rewinds, I only did Mabuchis as a kid and those arms had real problems with the coms. Later when I bought blanks, it was whatever was on the wall at the track as I wasn't particular. Probably both Champions and Muras!?

-john
John Havlicek

#79 havlicek

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 05:39 PM

...and speaking of #26 awg, here's a nice one. A little on the milder side and should draw under 3 amps to run pretty cool. Vintage Mura .007" blank/Kirkwood com, blah blah blah... :)
Posted Image

-john
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#80 Lenny M

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 08:25 PM

John,

I have a question?
Does it mater which direction the wire is wound around the pole?
Clockwise or counterclockwise?
I know about timing the comm, but just do not know if it matters about wind direction?

Thanks

Lenny M
Lenny Mishik

#81 havlicek

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 08:37 PM

Hi Lenny,

The sequence of poles matters (looking at the arm from the top/end of the com shaft...working counterclockwise), but I don't know that the direction of each pole's wrap matters. I really don't know for sure though as I've always done it the same way, and have always seen it done that way. Looking at each pole head-on I wrap clockwise and that leaves the last wrap to pass over the pole on it's way to the next com tab, which is also neat and convenient. It seems as though it would be difficult to make the pass to the next com tab wrapping counterclockwise without maybe interfering with the next pole. So...the short answer is...beats me! :unsure: :laugh2:

-john
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#82 Phil Irvin

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 10:13 PM

...and speaking of #26 awg, here's a nice one. A little on the milder side and should draw under 3 amps to run pretty cool. Vintage Mura .007" blank/Kirkwood com, blah blah blah... :)
Posted Image

-john


What is the timing set at? Looks like a bunch to my ol 4 eyes. :umnik2:

PHIL

#83 idare2bdul

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 10:21 PM

What is the timing set at? Looks like a bunch to my ol 4 eyes. :umnik2:

PHIL

Timing, well if this is Tuesday it maybe timed into next Thursday. What the heck, rev er up!
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#84 havlicek

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 05:15 AM

Hi Phil,

Timing is 20 degrees advance, not particularly wild at all and the wind is moderate. The arm revs smoothly and doesn't get too warm. It draws less than 3 amps not broken-in using a sloppy setup I keep for testing. I think this would be another good arm of the general type Jairus mentioned for the proxy.

Timing, well if this is Tuesday it maybe timed into next Thursday. What the heck, rev er up!


...nope, and this arm is way more conservative than a good many of the rewinds seen here and elsewhere, although I did take care with stuff like the same high-temp epoxy (on this one recoating the arm before winding as well as after) and tieing with kevlar as well as cutting the com before testing and cleaning it up afterwards.

-john
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#85 havlicek

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 06:06 AM

ANNOUNCEMENT! :laugh2:

I see some continuing misunderstanding relating to what I'm doing with rewinding arms here. To further make my points that:

1)Winding is fun and more people should do it
2)What some think are crazy/dangerous arms are just my take on what winders have been doing for decades
3)Make them mild or make them wild and use them accordingly. If it's fun...then it's "right".


...I'd like to make an offer. I will send two arms for free to someone here that can use them IF they will use them like NOW. One will be the #26 shown above and another will be more of an "open" type wind. The person should be able to set up a C can (either modern or vintage will work just fine) and have a track with good power nearby. Use them...abuse them...have fun with them! However long they last or if they're the fastest on the block isn't really important. What IS important is that you can make them yourself and stick them in a chassis you make yourself...and then wrap that all up with a body you painted. That's what scratchbuilding is all about...no?

Just PM me here if you're interested. This should be fun and I'll announce who I'm sending them to right here maybe later today or tomorrow...if anyone is game :unsure: :rolleyes: :shok: :laugh2:

-john
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#86 havlicek

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 05:15 AM

TADA! Well partly anyway :-) The #26 is going to a member, but he hasn't run any of the hotter stuff for a long time so I still have a "spicy meatball" arm waiting to send if anyone who runs these kinds of things will use it. PM if interested.

-john
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#87 havlicek

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 07:08 PM

I haven't done a double wind in a while so it seemed like a good thing to do. Here's a #28awg double wind on a vintage Mura blank with Kirkwood com. It sings soprano :shok: :laugh2:

Posted Image

-john
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#88 Jairus

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 08:15 PM

Wow!
Wow!


I like double winds!
I like double winds!


:sun_bespectacled:
:sun_bespectacled:

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Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#89 stoo23

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 12:32 AM

Mmmmm,..like Homer Simpson says about Donuts,..

"is there anything a double wind can't do?",..:):)
Stewart Amos

Old 'Phhtt' Racer from Sydney, Australia
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#90 havlicek

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 05:56 AM

Thanks Jairus and Stoo. Doublewinds are tedious, trying to keep the pair neat, tight and together during all those trips around the arm. It's always a relief when they're done :blink: This one has some pretty serious revs going on as I suspected it would, so I made double sure I tied the com really well!

-john
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#91 havlicek

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 06:57 PM

Rick had me thinking about doing a #24 single after his good results with the wind, so I did one sort of like that one. This is a brutal wind by any measure (and I mean that in a good way of course! :) ) and when he says:

It will spin Alpha's all the way down the straight


...I believe it from the sound of this thing :shok:

Posted Image

-john
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#92 Tex

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 06:59 PM

Yup, that's serious wire there.
Richard L. Hofer

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#93 Horsepower

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 11:00 PM

I've been meaning to ask-John, where do you get those comms from?
Gary Stelter

#94 Phil Irvin

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 12:23 AM

;)
Back when I was doing my own arms. Most everyone was winding 24 or 26 guage. We had 1 track that was still had an old powerpack and with 8 24 guage motors. There was not a bunch of extra amps to be had. I did a double 29 that was a tad slower qualifing :unsure: but when there were 7 amp suckers and me runnin....I went and hid from them. :smoking: That was the only track I ran it on. :laugh2:

OL'FRTS RACIN TEAM
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#95 havlicek

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 07:09 AM

Yup, that's serious wire there.


For sure Tex! The 24's and 23's are the ones that rev like there's no tomorrow, but they're a real pain to wind (especially the #23's) and keep neat because the wire's so stout. Of course, there's no such thing as a free lunch...and these things will draw more than 4 amps (no load). Still, they have so much torque and rpm's it's pretty amazing.

I've been meaning to ask-John, where do you get those comms from?


Hi Gary,

The comms are either current Mura (as is the case here) or vintage ...usually Kirkwood. In either case I cut them, and on the Muras that means just a light pass or two. The Kirkwoods need some pretty significant work to get them to clean-up round and true. What's got me wondering here is that, although most of the rewinding I did as a kid was on Mabuchis...I also did some new winds on blank arms and coms you could buy at the tracks. I assume that these had either Kirkwoods or similar and I just ran them as-is. The thing is, these coms are so far out of round it's amazing they ran at all since I of course didn't own a com lathe back then. I wish I could remember how they ran or even if I did something to try and straighten them out...but I can't :blink:

Back when I was doing my own arms. Most everyone was winding 24 or 26 guage. We had 1 track that was still had an old powerpack and with 8 24 guage motors. There was not a bunch of extra amps to be had. I did a double 29 that was a tad slower qualifing but when there were 7 amp suckers and me runnin....I went and hid from them. That was the only track I ran it on.


Hi Phil...that's what I'd call "good strategy"! I recently did a double #28 that winds like nobody's business but draws significantly less current than the "big wire" arms. To a certain extent, these things can probably be evened-out a bit with gearing and chassis weight, but just hearing these things wind (or scream!) is a thrill.

-john
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#96 Phil Irvin

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 03:46 PM

:laugh2:

As I remember..WOW... I was geared 7/29 or 30 when most were 8/28 or 29. Could hear the difference.....

PHIL

#97 havlicek

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 07:40 AM

In the odd event that anyone here is thinking of doing some arm winding :unsure: :laugh2: , I just started playing around with one of the Mura .007" blanks. Up until now, I've been using Mura's .014" blanks (aside from winding/rewinding some vintage arms) and those have been fine. The .007" blanks have a different web and are noticeably easier to wind. I've tried several different gauges of wire on it and had similar results with them all. So if you're interested...you may want to try one of these. FYI

-john
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#98 Prof. Fate

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 02:27 PM

In the odd event that anyone here is thinking of doing some arm winding :unsure: :laugh2: , I just started playing around with one of the Mura .007" blanks. Up until now, I've been using Mura's .014" blanks (aside from winding/rewinding some vintage arms) and those have been fine. The .007" blanks have a different web and are noticeably easier to wind. I've tried several different gauges of wire on it and had similar results with them all. So if you're interested...you may want to try one of these. FYI

-john


Hi

Told ya' you wanted the 007s.

Fate
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#99 havlicek

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 02:39 PM

Hi Rocky,

So do all .007" lam arms have this web design now? I've used a bunch of vintage Mura .007's that have a regular fat/straight leg, but this is the first modern .007 I've used and the legs taper from the outside towards the shaft. It makes it noticeably easier to lay the wire flat and tight.

-john
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#100 Prof. Fate

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Posted 08 November 2008 - 01:20 PM

Hi John,

Shocking as it may seem, I have not seen all or even most of the 007 blanks! In the day, I was convinced that the 007s and the change in alloy alone produced a better field saturation, essentially getting more out of our magnets allowing a cooler run with a given wind.

that they commonly came with a thinner web was just a plus! I still have 007 blanks, mostly from burned out pro arms I built THEN. It was a basic thing, the arm blows, I would strip it down and put it in the box for a later wind. A number of these survived because of the sudden crash of G.7 racing in about 73 around here.

Fate
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