3573 replies to this topic

[Victor Poulin]

Nobody has yet told you that a 36D arm blank has a lot more room for fat fingers than the others. I'm not sure when I'll be coming over yet, since I just got home from Thanksgiving. But my winder does have a 36D holder.

Bill, I've got some cool blanks to show you when you come. The only thing I haven't gotten yet is the epoxy, and I hope to get that soon. Doug aka-Champion has offered to go half's with me on it. I'll try to get that ordered up this coming week.

[Robert V.]

Hi Vic

I think you should give one of those 36D's a try, i rewound one of mine with 30 gauge wire and used old Parma 16d brush gear, as John said you will have to modify the end bell a bit but it can be done and mine ran a lot better than any stock 36d except maybe a Champion.

[Champion 507]

1. 55 to 60 turns #28. 45 turns #27 if you dare (use Arcos ONLY with #27)

2. Use comm from Bill Bugenis. Drill it out to .091 and epoxy to arm. Comm advance 15º CCW . True comm and balance arm after winding and epoxying

3. Update endbell hardware with current Parma, ProSlot or Mura hardware

4. Shim magnets with thin magnetic metal such as material cut from a tuna fish can. The curvature of the can helps with shaping them. Do not use anything non-magnetic for shimming. Or better yet, get some Arcos.

5. Buy or make spring post protectors and heavy duty springs (John has covered both of those very well in the past)

6. Wait till you see the K-I-L-L-E-R 36-D I'm gonna build next year. It won't be good enough till I dim the lights in the neighborhood.

[havlicek]

Good summary Doug. Personally, I think a #27 wind even with Arcos and upgraded (modern) hardware is really pushing things and probably would go with a #30 double wind over a #27 single. They might be "the same" or even warmer on paper, but they seem to work better than the "equivalent" single winds for some reason. I have drilled-out some coms (Mura and Kirkwood) and that seems to work OK on these milder motors, but would ask Bill Bugenis if he thinks it's OK with his. He makes them and knows what's inside...if there's enough phenolic in there. Even though these are all fairly mild winds by today's standards, I would do an extra good job tieing the com to help hold it together due to drilling it out. Lastly, Electric Dreams had some Tradeship coms that were really nice they were selling as FT16D/26D replacements which were actually 36D size...I don't know if they still have any or not. If you can find one, there was a Champion com for 36D that was the bee's knees and would probably do well for about any reasonable wind, but they seem kinda rare.

-john

[wbugenis]

If you are going to drill out the hole to .091", I would use a new Mura com. They start out with a larger O.D. and are more suitable for motors of that vintage.
With a smaller O.D. the center hole starts getting close to the slots.
Bill

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

With the FK motors, just a fine set of jewelers needle nose pliers can be used to bend up the tabs one at a time. That way leaves marks on the outside of the can if one looks closely. The circlip pliers were mostly to dispute my friend Bob Ward's assertion that the reason to use FK motors was that they were "sealed" and could not be opened without leaving evidence for the tech inspector.

For 36ds, in the day with arcos, no one could get a reliable wind hotter than the 28 that I saw. But then, of course, a bad qualifier with a good car might mean needing to drive up through 3 or 4 preliminary mains to make the money main. Back then, you had to finish with the major parts that you put thorough tech OR replace the blown motor or whatever during the heat.

Champion used as selling point that their 707s had been run unopened without a break in 24 hour races. This justified a motor that cost more than most entries whole cars!

Fate

[havlicek]

If you are going to drill out the hole to .091", I would use a new Mura com. They start out with a larger O.D. and are more suitable for motors of that vintage.
With a smaller O.D. the center hole starts getting close to the slots.
Bill

Thanks for the info Bill...makes sense as those Mura coms are as fat as heck.

-john

[Victor Poulin]

Well I took your advice John and built a Falcon Group 20 I'm really happy with the way it came out, and MAN !! does this thin scream !!!
It will make one heck of a drag motor. For the arm on this one, I used an RJR hemi wound with 42deg timing .



On this one I didn't cut the can down as I needed the extra lenght for the group 20 arm. I used a full size Kelly endbell and cut it down to fit.



For endbell on this one, I had some new JK-Hawk hardware that I had saved from another project and as it turns out, It came in quite handy. Everything fits nice, and it was easy to align everything to get a perfect fit.



The whole build from start to finish took me about an hour. Most of that time was building the endbell.
Vic

[havlicek]

Hi Vic,

No doubt that the G20 arm and the neos make a potent combination. Seems like it shouldn't get all THAT hot and could maybe go in something that gets driven longer than a drag car. G20 C-cans used to be a favorite of mine...LOTS of bang for the buck and you could run the heck out of them. With the added magnet strength, might even be a step up from the C-can version...G21 or something

-john

[Kim Lander]

John John John,
You always amaze me with your creations, this thing I opened up today is amazing, it reminds me of a strap/old Koford Whisper can combination, love the room it has to breath and does it ever wind up, I cannot wait to put this thing in a wire chassis and see what it can do, although I am thinking of a retro type chassis and see what it does, I am not going to tell anyone what it is , just let them wonder. Thanks a million for all you do, as long as I have been working on motors, youres are the best I have seen, hands down. Will let you know how it turns out in a car.
Kim

[havlicek]

Hi Kim,

Thanks for the kind words Go easy with that thing and let it have a low voltage break-in. Monitor it for heat and whatnot and...may the force be with you!

-john

[Robert V.]

Hi Vic

That does look good and with that combo it's got to be fast, lets us know how it works in a car.

[havlicek]

Hey Vic, just for giggles, did you try the Falcon endbell itself (and not just the hardware) for fit? I believe it's either a close or maybe an exact fit in the mini motor can. If so, it would save some fabrication time in a case like this. Just remove the stock endbell and you're basically ready to go.

-john

[Victor Poulin]

Hey Vic, just for giggles, did you try the Falcon endbell itself (and not just the hardware) for fit? I believe it's either a close or maybe an exact fit in the mini motor can. If so, it would save some fabrication time in a case like this. Just remove the stock endbell and you're basically ready to go.

-john

John, did you mean the Hawk endbell? if so, no I haven't tried one yet. I haven't had any spare endbells to donate lol. I guess maybe I should buy a couple of Hawk motors to strip for parts. You got me thinking though!!

Vic

[Victor Poulin]

Hi Vic,

No doubt that the G20 arm and the neos make a potent combination. Seems like it shouldn't get all THAT hot and could maybe go in something that gets driven longer than a drag car. G20 C-cans used to be a favorite of mine...LOTS of bang for the buck and you could run the heck out of them. With the added magnet strength, might even be a step up from the C-can version...G21 or something

-john

John,

At first I was pondering opening up the can some like the last one I did, but I built this one figuring it would be strictly for drag racing where heat isn't as big a factor. Also I wanted to retain to strenght of the can, figuring the power of the arm could be a concern. It does get a little hot, but not to the point that it's a problem. During break in, I ran it just a few minutes at a time allowing some cool down in between and it worked fine.

Vic

[havlicek]

Hi Vic...yes, I meant the Hawk endbell. If I remember correctly, it was a fit for the mini motors???

Anyway, further developement on my "mixed-nut series" of shortened, mixed parts motors. I've been working-up winds for the "Strapnuts"...reused minimotors, cut down with C-can endbells. I've settled on a slightly shorter arm after some tests....330" or so seems to work really well in these things (can is shortened a bunch to around .750" long on the outside which is enough to keep the stock magnets and still insert a C-can endbell). Here's a #27 wind which spins up like the dickens and, thanks to the neos, seems to have excellent brakes and torque...even in an open can. Com is a Mura-recycled piece, arm lams were assembled from unknown original burned-up arms and pressed onto a recycled shaft:



I opened up the can "all the way", save for leaving some "radius" on the end nearest the can bushing. This helped greatly to maintain some rigidity in the can and, after screwing the endbell onj there, the whole thing is nice and rigid. Of course, I polished up the can after cutting because of the "shiny stuff goes faster" rule Surprisingly, the neos don't seem to lose much, if any, field strength in such a minimalist can. Endbell is all Mura of mixed-vintage...older hardware on a newer endbell. I had the endbell lying around and it's nice and compact, keeping the overall length of the setup short. Brush hoods/hardware are of course from an older Mura which I also had lying around...1+1=3 Anyway, the motor really whistles and I think it will be a strong runner. A couple more of these and I should have some good winds to work with these ...er..."Strapnuts".



-john

[Victor Poulin]

Looks fantastic John What was the can to start with F-7? How the heck do you get your cuts so smooth? I know, you could tell me, but then you'd have to kill me right?
That's the one thing that I have to work on, is getting nice even/smooth cuts.
Any how, nice job on both the arm and the motor John.

Vic

[havlicek]

Thanks Vic. Yes, it was a S7 and cutting such small things as these isn't really that tough after you do a few. Now cutting those Tony P center sections is a whole different matter! I've done a few steel chassis, but they never came out looking like those!

-john

[Kim Lander]

Hey John,
Yes it is already broken in `at low voltage and is ready for me to built it a chassis, I cannot wait to see it scream on the track, "This will be Bliss", that motor really is a nice one, you have out done your self.....Kim

[Alchemist]

Hi Victor,

That is one gorgeous looking Falcon 20 motor! Very nice job!!

Kim,

May I ask you please, for photos of the motor that John built for you, in the chassis - please please please?!!

John,

I'm gonna have to pick some coins out of the mall fountain and save up for one of your strap motors - LOL!! What another "gem" of a motor John - really really nice!!!

By the way John,

Since you print your own motor stickers, may I ask you please, how large can you make it? I just finished building my new slot car box and I'd love to place one of your motor stickers on it - if I may have your permission please? If allowed, let me know what the cost would be please.

Thank you.

Ernie

[havlicek]

Thanks Kim,

Guys like you make this stuff even more fun than it already is...and that's saying something

-john

[Robert V.]

Hi John

Wow another awsome motor, i think you may be an addict maybe we need to call your family for an intervention, i really like it when you give us all the detailed info with the pictures it lets me know what's going on in there.

[havlicek]

Hi Ernie,

The motor stickers can only be pretty small, but I'll send you some as large as I can make them. I can print the logo out on regular paper and then cover it with clear tape to protect it, but you'd have to figure out how to stick it to the box...maybe some spray adhesive or something.

Hi Robert,

Busted...I am definitely an addict The thing is, there's really no way to improve at this stuff other than repetition...I can't tell you how many arms I've wound and then just tossed afterwards. The other thing is that I'm sometimes just guessing what arm will work well in a motor, so just working up winds can mean tossing away arms. I used to give away arms that I had no use for, but I don't do that anymore. Anyway, for these small open can things it seemed like the smallest / lightest versions would be the best way to go and, rather than stuff as long an arm in there as I could manage and make the winding more difficult...I found that a .330" long stack seemed about "right". That right there mean tossing a few arms. It also seems that somewhere between a #27 wind and a #26 wind is also about "right" for the max (unless it's to be a drag motor).

The ceramic magnets work really well too, but seem better in the more closed can and you can do some pretty cool things in that direction too with these mini motors. All in all, with some extra C can endbells and a little "improvisation", there's lots of fun to be had doing these things. What I like best about starting with these S7/TSR type motors is the cans are very nicely fabricated from a single drawn piece of metal of a nice gauge. There really isn't much limitation placed on what you can do here by the can and either the ceramics or the neos are really strong and compact. In the hands of a good builder, they might be especially suited to some bad-to-the-bone 1/32 cars.

-john

[Alchemist]

Thank you very much John! Whatever you give me I will proudly place onto my box!!!!

Ernie

[Victor Poulin]

Hi Victor,

That is one gorgeous looking Falcon 20 motor! Very nice job!!

Ernie

Thanks Ernie, But as I've said many times before, I owe it to John. He's the the one who plants the seeds, and I just follow his leads
I think I have become a fellow addict !!

Hello, my name is Vic and I'm a motor hollic