179 replies to this topic

[Pablo]

Correction - next step was a .063 x 3/4 x .865 wide brass chunk shakey shakey weight. .025 wire pieces in .063 brass tube pieces decouple it from the rails, giving it some movement and providing a platform for additional lead weight if desired

 

[Pablo]

Now we start to get freaky, Eddie, with a 3/32 tube across the main rails right where they stop bending.

This strengthens the forward end of the "motor box", and provides a hinge for the floating (ISO) front axle wires.

 

I buttressed them with pieces of .047, further strengthening the motor area. We don't want any flex or failures back there. I like strong butts and I cannot lie    A little over-built perhaps. Power Woman - approved

 

 

[eshorer]

Interesting. I thought the hinge would be behind the rear axle, as in a more traditional ISO layout. Like in this inline build: http://slotblog.net/...3670-the-point/  I guess it'd be impossible to fit things in back there with an anglewinder configuration in that narrow body, even if you wanted to. I wonder how much the hinge point matters compared to the floating front wheels. Time will tell.

Eddie

[Pablo]

There is nothing new under the sun in chassis design, Eddie, maybe you misinterpret my term of "freaky".

None of my designs on this car are untested experiments. 

 

They are time-tested methods that have proven successful through the evolution of chassis design since the mid-60's.

People have been ISO-hinging front axle/wheels in this manner for decades, and it still works super when done right.

 

The Jairus ISO build you showed was hinged way to the rear. Generally, you want the ISO hinge as far rearward as possible.

It's a goal, not a rule.

 

Many have hinged the ISO forward of the motor as I have here. ISO, plumbers, tilting hinged pans, etc. have been around for decades. Believe it or not, they still work. Ever heard of the Owl Chump Stock Car?

 

dc-65x built one a few years ago

 

 

The Lola T70 handled well and won for you at a track thousands of miles from me. I followed the advice and experience of many people. I'm doing the same thing with this Lotus, but this time I know what works first hand.

 

So can I get a little bit of faith here? How many more pages of builds do I need before I'm no longer a newbie?

 

 

 

 

[eshorer]

So can I get a little bit of faith here? How many more pages of builds do I need before I'm no longer a newbie?

 

You mistake my exploratory questions with a lack of faith. If I didn't have faith I wouldn't have commissioned you to build this car. And that's the trufe. It's looking good, and I'm excited. Unfortunately it's probably going to be getting it's first runs on my home track rather than BPR, but it's small enough that it'll probably be fine here.

 

Eddie

[Pablo]

Understood Eddie    Have faith, you will be running this car at BP in 2021 and it will handle like a dream.

 

Here is a really freaky photo for you, the chassis does back-flips 

 

 

Whoops, wrong photo

 

 

Whoops, I forgot the ISO limiter hardware 

[Rotorranch]

Oh $#!+...

 

Houston, we have a problem!         

 

Rotor

[Bill from NH]

Inline chassis like the ISO hinge location in back of the motor, at the rear axle, or as far rearward as possible. Anglewinders have the ISO hinge location in front of the motor box. The only exception to these might be a full sidewinder or an anglewinder with an inboard spur gear, depending upon how they're built. The first ISO by Art Tarver of San Diego & those built by Tony P. & Monty Ohren were all anglewinders with hinge locations in front of the motor box. Pablo has got it right.

[Pablo]

My best and original mentor, Bill Fernald backs me up right when I need him most - thanks Bill 

 

My wire wraps never look pretty but not sorry for the fact I aim for one thing - strength 

 

.039 anti-spreader wire. Triple .063 wires hold and manage the 3/32 wire axle.

Tape will come off, then a scrubdown before the next "freaky" stage 

 

 

Jig gears come out, now I can play with the body. Next step: BP Shakey Platform

 

 

Wish I have not cemented that rear deck on until later. Oh well.

[Pablo]

Trimmed the body rear end a little to allow the BP gizmo more room. Size will be .063 x 2 1/8 x 3/8 

 

 

.055 wire hangers will be inserted into 3/32 square brass tube pieces.

I allow for the extra elevation of the tube wall thickness by soldering the hangers atop the BP platform plus a scrap piece of 15 thou 

 

 

My Europa BP Platform, function over form. It's a race car. Not pretty, but I'm happy with the amount of wiggle, lift, droop, and shake   On the BP flat track, it's all about decoupling as many parts of the chassis as possible, and shoving as much weight into a small package as low as possible

 

[Pablo]

The ISO upstop/downstop method I used on the Gene/ZR1 Grand Sport chassis worked so nice, I used it again here.

.063 wire to position/align a pair of 3/32 tube pieces and a 1/2 length of round tube on the chunk. Then, the "bait-and-switch" to a piece of .055 wire soldered to the squares and left to float in the round tube.

 

It gives me zero droop and about 5 thou lift on the wheels. I'll show just the .063 wire photo since the .055 looks the same. But a little bit of lift and a little wiggle n slop lets those front wheels "do their own thang" 

 

[eshorer]

Very cool design; wheels will be ready to absorb every crack in the track and every toad in the road! Looking good.

Eddie

[Pablo]

Thanks Eddie 

 

Time for hinged brass pans. I've thought about this for days and decided to hinge off the ISO front axle rails.

I don't have much lateral room to work with here - the body skirts at ground zero are only 2 1/4 wide.

 

So I have to accomplish a lot of body management goals in a narrow space. What to do?

I remember a D3 F1 retro chassis built by Mopar Rob for Greg Wells years ago. Pans were .090" thick.

 

I had the honor of cleaning/tuning and testing Rob's chassis before returning it to Greg. It was an absolute bullet on the track. So I found this - "Eureka" ! I have found it moment and it will work nice on this car

 

[Shruska55]

I'm really learning a bunch from this chassis build. A few lightbulbs went off. Thanks, Pablo...and all the commenters.

[eshorer]

So far the chassis doesn't look like it's going to be all that much wider than an old school anglewinder F1 car! I wonder what their chassis width was. By the way, they handled great.

Eddie

[Pablo]

I was able to carve a hair of excess horizontal plastic off the body skirt bottoms.

L side after shaving, R side before

 

 

ISO rail sets complete along with hinge tubes. ISO up/down stop complete. Pans 2 1/2" long.

Starting to look like a "Plumber's Nightmare", eh? 

 

Looks ugly. The body will cover it up 

 

[eshorer]

I'm sure all will be revealed in due time, but it looks like the body will mount on the hinged 2 1/2" pans, and they be attached to the plumber assembly holding the front wheel/axle assembly. Is that correct? 

Eddie

[Rotorranch]

I'm sure all will be revealed in due time, but it looks like the body will mount on the hinged 2 1/2" pans, and they be attached to the plumber assembly holding the front wheel/axle assembly. Is that correct? 

Eddie

 

Patience, Grasshopper...  the Master works in mysterious ways!     

 

Rotor

[Pablo]

 

Patience, Grasshopper...  the Master works in mysterious ways!     

 

Bingo, but please keep in mind I didn't invent this stuff. Guys like Bob Suzuki were doing it decades ago.

I know exactly how you want this body mounted, Eddie

[Pablo]

.032 strips bent 90 degrees will be soldered to the pans flush with outside edges.

Unlike the curved strips on my Lola hardbody pans, these won't touch the body skirts.

 

 

Which tool to tack solder .032 strips atop 3/32 thick brass - Hakko 454, 601, or 455?

The 455 gets 'er done    

 

 

Tack turned into full solder flow. Next step is trim the strips and drill holes 3/8" above ground zero for pin tubes

 

 

[SpeedyNH]

i don't know what these irons are, but for big brass i like my old Ungar 90W on a dimmer! 

[Pablo]

Speedy, The 454 is for super small fine work like soldering Marklin train wires to vintage motor tabs.

The FX-601 is my scratchbuilding all-round workhorse for everything up to super thick brass.

The 455 I bought from PA Watson in Pasadena, Texas about 20 years ago. It is like a crowbar - never fails.

Not shown is my Weller Gun (best wire tinning tool and handy for quick one-time jobs) and my new Lenz mini-torch which will create a Class Delta fire in an ice storm 

 

I love Ungars of course! 

 

"Mopar Rob" pans with pin tube management gizmos hogged out to .078" ID to give the .063" tubes some wiggle lift and droop

 

 

The .078 cross wires are just alignment dummies for soldering home the hinge pins

 

[SpeedyNH]

cool. 

i did find out once that the old weller guns can act like a demagnitizer if you get 'em too close to a motor. 

[Bill from NH]

Was that with alnico magnets?

[SpeedyNH]

a 60's 16D, IIRC.