453 replies to this topic

[Uncle Fred]

Alan,
I'm not envisioning a crumbled up, silk parachute at the end of my strip.

Fred,
Any idea how long of a shutdown you guys typically encountered?

Mine is about 44 1/2 feet.

Maybe 15 FT?  Now a days they use heavy glue to slow down.

[Alan Draht]

 

 

Thanks, Rick!  Like you I visited EJ's Hobbies website as soon as Don Siegel suggested it a few days ago and didn't find Weldun gears there, but I did not look at his catalogue.  Thanks for posting the catalogue pages and highlighting the Weldun gears I'm looking for.  I will call him now.

 

Well, I just got off the phone with EJ's Hobbies' Ed Sourbeck.  I had pages 19 and 20 of his catalogue open on my laptop.  I went through all of the Weldun 64 pitch aluminum spur and steel pinion gears listed that I need and Ed wrote item stock numbers down along with quantities.  He'll  check his inventory and call me back.

 

Miraculously, it sounds like he has all of this stuff!     

 

Each item costs $3.95 just like the catalogue says.  

 

I should hear back in an hour or so.  Stand by...

[dc-65x]

Alan, make sure you ask him for his catalog to be sent along with your order. 

[Alan Draht]

Ed said he'd send an updated catalogue with the merchandise.

 

He also described a years-long project of cataloging and photographing a massive collection of 1/32 slot cars that he bought from the estate of a long-time friend which he is re-selling to slot car collectors.  There's a CD documenting all that information which Ed is sending along with the catalogue.

[Alan Draht]

I just heard back from EJ's Hobbies.  Ed says he's got  2 - 3 each of every Weldun spur and pinion gear I need, except for a 71T spur and a 25T pinion, both of which are sold out.  

 

I want to thank Don Siegel and Rick Thigpen for pointing me in EJ Hobbies' direction as a source for these hard-to -find Weldun gears.

 

I mentioned these two referrals to Ed by name because he asked, and he recognizes your names, says he knows both of you. 

 

Sounds like Ed is still going strong at 80 years of age.  EJ Hobbies' catalogue is where everything is listed.  The website isn't anywhere near as complete or up to date.  I am eagerly waiting to receive both the gears I ordered from Ed and a copy of his  current catalogue.

 

So, to everyone who offered up their vintage Weldun gears to help me with my dragster project's "gear problem", I say "Thanks" again, but that won't be necessary any longer.

[MSwiss]

I've successfully started a new thread on Alan's shifting of gears, from the Howie Ursaner road race car, which he completed, to a new build, of the late Gene Husting's Magwinder dragster.

[dc-65x]

Good deal Mike.  

 

Alan, I'm glad you don't have to make the gears! I don't have any spur gears larger than 70T but I do have a couple of 25T set screw .093 bore pinions. I'll respond to your PM now.

[Alan Draht]

Hi Rick,

 

Yes, that would be great if you can send me the 25T pinions.  With EJ's supply of 0.125" bore pinion gears on the way, I have way fewer existing 0.093 bore pinions tor ream out.  Thanks!  

[Alan Draht]

Mike,

 

The way you just executed the thread split was impressive, very slick.  Thank you!  

[Howie Ursaner]

Just thought i would mention that Sandy Gross built a really fast one using a Kemtron magnet and  laminations cut down with a Ram armature.Its lighter than a DC 85 setup.

[Alan Draht]

Just thought i would mention that Sandy Gross built a really fast one using a Kemtron magnet and  laminations cut down with a Ram armature.Its lighter than a DC 85 setup.

 

Yes, I've seen old photos of these cars with hybrid motors using Kemtron's thin polished steel laminations.  The vintage Russkit dragster pictured earlier in this thread has that type of motor set-up, though I don't know which magnet and which armature is in it because I haven't looked closely.

 

The other thing that Husting and other drag racers of that era did was to file each lamination's thickness down individually to resemble the thin sections of Kemtron's stock motor laminations, thus improving the Ram and Pittman motors' magnetic fields.  Then they re-assemble the set of thinner laminations into a single unit and grind these blocks further to reshape them.

 

Evidently, this reshaping enhances output and helps to lighten these motors overall, together with machining/ cutting out inessential portions of the motor's stock endplates.  

 

Since I don't have any extra big block Kemtron motors to cannibalize, this is the approach I will probably take.

 

From the photos it looks like you did the same with modifying your dragster's motor, too. 

[Alan Draht]

How Gene Husting and these other racers figured these speed secrets out was part science, part extensive trial and error, and part black arts.

 

I mean Husting talks about how he tested and tuned his Top Fuel dragster over the course of conducting 100+ runs on the drag strip before he began to dial in the combination of performance variables he deemed best for a given track at different voltages.

 

There is one thing I've always envied about the pro's and that is the sheer amount of time they had to devote to practice, testing, tuning and experimentation. 

 

The semi-pro's and high-functioning amateurs like me never had a chance against that level of preparation and knowledge.

 

That's why I have always imitated and copied the best in the business!   

[Tom Katsanis]

If you are still looking for pinions Alan robinson racing make 64 pitch gears for r/c to fit a 1/8 shaft from 20t (could start lower) to 60t I have used some on my cars.

[Ramcatlarry]

Not all padlock Pitt/Ram motors used thick laminations - only the Pittman 83,4, & 5 series, the Strombecker clones and the Ram 850.  The Ram 857 used thin laminations.  All are interchangable with common hole patterns.

 

The overall MASS of the padlock cars carry a lot of inertia and slowing them down can be an issue.  Modern drags use a much lighter car, but wired in the track dynamic braking should help a lot instead of flypaper glue.

 

I guess I am going to replicate my Ram 857 Bantam Magwinder to compete against Mike, Howie, Alan, and Dave's cars.  We had one of the early 1962 'strips in Aurora, Illinois at the Aurora Cycle and Hobby Shop - in the basement.  I left the car on display in 1966 when I went into the Army and have not seen it since.

 

We all need to decide if we are going to run old rules voltage or not.  I would recommend a 12 volt street stock;  16 volt alky class; and no more than 24 volts fuel class in order to not destroy these classic builds.  This reduced voltage changes the gear ratios needed to build the cars significantly.  When 3-1 gearing on 36 volts worked, 2.5-1 may be better on 24 volts.

[Ramcatlarry]

Tom and I may get our 'mystery' motor cars done as well......    we all got projects.

[Howie Ursaner]

 

Yes, I've seen old photos of these cars with hybrid motors using Kemtron's thin polished steel laminations.  The vintage Russkit dragster pictured earlier in this thread has that type of motor set-up, though I don't which magnet and which armature is in it because I haven't looked closely.

 

The other thing that Husting and other drag racers of that era did was to file each lamination's thickness down individually to resemble the thin sections of Kemtron's stock motor laminations, thus improving the Ram and Pittman motors' magnetic fields.  Then they reassemble the set of thinner laminations into a single unit and grind these blocks further to reshape them.

 

Evidently, this reshaping enhances output and helps to lighten these motors overall, together with machining/ cutting out inessential portions of motor's stock endplates.  

 

Since I don't have any extra big block Kemtron motors to cannibalize, this is the approach I will probably take.

 

From the photos it looks like you did the same with modifying your dragster's motor, too. 

https://www.ebay.com...EQAAOSwTuJYs1OF

[Alan Draht]

If you are still looking for pinions Alan robinson racing make 64 pitch gears for r/c to fit a 1/8 shaft from 20t (could start lower) to 60t I have used some on my cars.

 

Thanks, Tom.

 

I think I'm all set at this point, although Ramcatlarry's advice in post #89 about the track voltages of yesteryear compared with today's standards in regards to optimizing gear ratios is food for thought.

[Howie Ursaner]

Okay, The legend of the Lindsay 10-10 Motor , built for trains , used in Slot Drag racing. You literally could not get one of these. The great Bob Braverman,famous motorcycle pioneer, magazine editor, in the AMA Hall of Fame, also had a passion for slot cars. His workmansip and engineering were beautiful. He built a slot dragster with the LIndsay motor and was setting records wherever it  was run. The thing would make 1 sec passes  with ease over and over.

Polks Hobbies set up a dragstrip at the NY Rod and Custom show in 1966 to run demonstrations. Bob Braverman had sent his Lindsay 1010 powered magwinder for me to use in demonstrations all day long. That thing was rock solid and made a perfect pass every time. It was a rocket and blew everyone away. It was much lighter than the Pittman DC-85 and Ram-powered cars. I loved that thing, It was the best dragster i ever saw.. It finally went back to Bob in Cali.

 

Here is the Bob Braverman Lindsey Powered car i had so much fun with ,running it at the show. !

 

 

 

 

[Alan Draht]

https://www.ebay.com...EQAAOSwTuJYs1OF

 

I'm on it!

 

I love your story about Bob Braverman's Lindsay 1010 motor - powered dragster.  That's the first I've heard or seen of this dragster.  And I did not know that you represented Polk's at the 1966 R & C show to demonstrate that car.

[Geary Carrier]

Please stay away from KTM 4 volt motors as they can perform somewhat erratically...

 

[Howie Ursaner]

 

I'm on it!

 

I love your story about Bob Braverman's Lindsay 1010 motor - powered dragster.  That's the first I've heard or seen of this dragster.  And I did not know that you represented Polk's at the 1966 R & C show to demonstrate that car.

I was working at polk's and they had a display at the Coliseum for the Rod and Custom show. They set up a beautiful drag strip there and it was a great hit drawing huge crowds.I was basically running the whole strip thing and everyone was bringing their drag cars there to run. I had the Lindsay car in my personal possesion and every time i ran it the crowd would gasp. It was a hoot because it never missed a beat.and was repeatable over and over. It was so quick and light. I probably had the car for a month before it went back. I also worked for Car Model Magazine at their huge mail in proxy drag race in Hartford Conn. I was there with them for days, i was like 15 or 16 yrs old and i was hanging out with Oscar Kovelevsky and the famous Bud Anderson with AMT. Bud was actually my ROOMATE which for me was a real hoot. I was part of the team keeping this huge event going. It was an incredible time. i was treated like a celebrity.

[Ramcatlarry]

Tom and I HAVE some Lindseys to build........

[Tom Katsanis]

Yes we do Larry I have already built one using the Lindsay magnet & a Pittman 6 volt dc65 arm.
It has gone 1.45 on 16 volt with 16/51 gearing it should go faster on more voltage & lower gearing.

[Tom Katsanis]

With the braking on these cars my faster car usually stops within 6 feet once it hits the glue when running 16 volt.

[Dave Crevie]

I have a Lindsay 1010 motor I bought from a train shop back in the day. The plan was to put the arm in a Ram 857 set-up, but never got to it. What I really

liked about the Lindsay arm was the larger diameter comm. Also the windings were more neatly laid down. The Lindsay set-up was not so great mainly

because of the brush arrangement. And IIRC, the magnet was weaker, and the design of the field was not conducive to the type of "contouring" we were

doing on the Rams and Pittmans. Heard a lot about Bob Braverman back then. About the only name I remember other than Gene Husting. I didn't make it

to many meets, I didn't have transportation. Mostly I attended on the west coast when I was visiting relatives out there. 

 

The Kemtron motors aren't terrible, just not up to the big padlocks. I have a few cars built with them, some shown elsewhere on this site.